Herbert SMITH [Parents] was born on 30 Oct 1916 in Fulham St., Oldham. He died on 1 Apr 1944 in Hawich, Scotland. He married Minnie OGDEN on 12 Jul 1938 in St Margarets', Hollinwood.
Killed in Hawick in Scotland. He is in the book of remembrance at the cenotaph in Oldham (not put in until 1980s)
From records at War Graves Commission
In Memory of
Herbert Smith
Sergeant
2211926
Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
who died on
Saturday, 1st April 1944. Age 27.
Additional Information:Son of Ernest and Clara May Smith, of Oldham; husband of Minnie Smith, of Oldham.
Commemorative Information
Cemetery:OLDHAM (HOLLINWOOD) CEMETERY
Grave Reference/ Panel Number: Sec. H.13. Grave 164.
Remembered with honour
OLDHAM (HOLLINWOOD) CEMETERY.
In the perpetual care of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission2 Jocelyn Close,
Bebbington,
Mersey side,
L63 9JH
4 June 1990
Dear Mrs Challen,
Thank you for your letter. Your brother's aircraft was a Halifax, serial number JP190, of No 1656 Heavy Conversion Unit, based at RAF Lindholme. The RAF accident records are very vague on the crash, saying merely that the aircraft flew into high ground for reasons unknown at Wolfcleugh Head, near Hawick, killing all eight on board. It was on a night navigational exercise. Unfortunately, the Operations Record Book of No 1656 HCU, like several similar units, has not survived so there is no further information from this source. HCUs, by the way, trained bomber crews immediately before posting to an operational squadron.
There were so many of these tragic accidents in wartime when flying had to continue round the clock in all weathers with minimal navigation aids. It is perhaps some small consolation that, at night and probably in cloud, death would have been sudden and painless for all on board. The area is now the Craik Forest but there is probably some wreckage still to be found there as an unofficial memorial to your brother and his crew. My wife's father went missing as an air gunner in July 1944 and her mother has never really got over his loss, so I have some idea of what these events mean at a personal level.
Yours sincerely,
David SmithThe Crew
Name/Nationality Age Rank Serial No Position Injury
Ross, R.E.P. (brit) MBE 31 F/O 52808 Pilot Fatal
Birkett, J. (brit) 22 F/O 151757 Bomb Aimer Fatal
Birchell, P. (brit) 21 F/S 1803818 Navigator Fatal
Farthing, C. (brit) 22 Sgt 1532220 Engineer Fatal
Simpson, H.W. (brit) 23 Sgt 1510042 W/Op Gunner Fatal
Bell, B.A. (brit) 19 Sgt 1677308 Engineer Fatal
Smith, H. (brit) 27 Sgt 2211926 Air Gunner Fatal
Hinder, J.G. (brit) 21 Sgt 1386334 Air Gunner FatalThe Crash
Halifax JP190 took off from RAF Lindholme in south Yorkshire at around 20:00 hours for a cross country exercise over the Scottish Borders. At around 20:30 hours the aircraft was witnessed flying in a westerly direction by a farmer in the village of Craik in the Teviotdale area. The aircraft appeared to have an engine on fire. Shortly after passing over the village the aircraft was seen to dive into a hillside and explode in a ball of flames. The farmer and a colleague set off in the direction of the crash, and discovered the shattered remains of the Halifax on a hillside 1/2 a mile from his farm, 5 bodies were also discovered. The next day a local Police unit and personnel from RAF Charterhall climbed to the site, and located a further 3 bodies.It is not 100% certain if Halifax JP190 had an engine fire, as no evidence could be found at the time to support the farmer's statement. Another possibility is that the pilot saw the high ground at the last moment, tried to increase height, and stalled the aircraft, resulting in the dive witnessed by the farmer, Halifaxes were well known for their stalling tendencies.At the site today, just to the west of Craik village, a number of small pieces of JP190 can still be found on the now wooded hillside. A wooden cross has been placed on the site, and in a forestry car park in Craik village a more permanent memorial in the form of a plaque has been erected.
Minnie OGDEN [Parents] was born in Sep 1912 in Oldham RD. She died on 9 Sep 1995 in Oldham, Lancs. She married Herbert SMITH on 12 Jul 1938 in St Margarets', Hollinwood. Minnie was employed as Book keeper.
They had the following children:
M i Peter Herbert SMITH was born on 23 Dec 1938. He died on 12 Feb 2003. M ii Geoffrey SMITH was born on 28 Sep 1941.
Harry Jordan OGDEN. Harry was employed as Overlooker.
He had the following children:
F i Minnie OGDEN was born in Sep 1912. She died on 9 Sep 1995.
Geoffrey SMITH [Parents] was born on 28 Sep 1941 in Oldham, Lancs. He married ----- (SMITH).
Other marriages:(SMITH), Hazel
----- (SMITH).----- married Geoffrey SMITH.
They had the following children:
F i Joanne SMITH.
Geoffrey SMITH [Parents] was born on 28 Sep 1941 in Oldham, Lancs. He married Hazel (SMITH).
Other marriages:(SMITH), -----
Hazel (SMITH).Hazel married Geoffrey SMITH.
Peter Herbert SMITH [Parents] was born on 23 Dec 1938 in Haslingden, Lancs. He died on 12 Feb 2003 in Uppermill, Saddleworth. He was buried on 19 Feb 2003 in Saddleworth Cemetery. He married Patricia S. FURNESS in Sep 1963 in Ashton RD.
The Railway Hotel.
Shaw Hall Bank Rd.
He had the licence for a few years from 1976.
Patricia S. FURNESS [Parents] was born in Mar 1942 in Ashton RD. She married Peter Herbert SMITH in Sep 1963 in Ashton RD.
Frederick Joseph HOLSTEIN [Parents] was born on 16 Jun 1920 in Oldham, Lancs. He married May SMITH on 24 Aug 1946 in St Margarets', Hollinwood. Frederick was employed as Driver.
May SMITH [Parents] was born on 23 Jan 1922 in Fulham St., Oldham. She died on 3 Oct 1993 in Oldham, Lancs. She was buried in Oldham Cemetery & Crematorium. She married Frederick Joseph HOLSTEIN on 24 Aug 1946 in St Margarets', Hollinwood.
They had the following children:
F i Margaret HOLSTEIN was born on 27 May 1948. M ii Freddie HOLSTEIN was born on 8 Mar 1951.
Frederick William HOLSTEIN [Parents] was born in 1898 in Salford, Lancs. He married GLEESON.
GLEESON.GLEESON married Frederick William HOLSTEIN.
They had the following children:
M i Frederick Joseph HOLSTEIN was born on 16 Jun 1920.
Freddie HOLSTEIN [Parents] was born on 8 Mar 1951 in Oldham, Lancs. He married Shirley M. POOLE in Mar 1973 in Ashton RD.
Shirley M. POOLE was born in Mar 1953 in Ashton RD. She married Freddie HOLSTEIN in Mar 1973 in Ashton RD.
Roger L CURTIS [Parents] was born in Sep 1946 in W Ham R.D.. He married Margaret HOLSTEIN in Dec 1971 in Newton A R.D..
Margaret HOLSTEIN [Parents] was born on 27 May 1948 in Oldham, Lancs. She married Roger L CURTIS in Dec 1971 in Newton A R.D..
Oldham Evening Chronicle Friday 28 May 1948
HOLSTEIN - On May 27 at Boundary Park General Hospital to May (Nee Smith) and Fred a daughter (Margaret), 24 Oldham Road, Royton.
Bernard Charles CHALLEN [Parents] was born on 1 May 1920 in Plaistow, London. He died on 9 Jan 1998 in Royton, Oldham. He was buried on 19 Jan 1998 in Oldham Cemetery & Crematorium. He married Dora SMITH on 19 Nov 1949 in St Pauls', Ashton Rd., Oldham.
A poem, written in Bernard's handwriting, which she found in his suit pocket a few days after his death.
I have heard the call, my love, seen the sign,
From this trip I will not return,
My fate was sealed in the mists of time,
Without me, my love, let the home fires burn.Do not be sad, my love, that I must go,
My spirit will soar high and free,
For yourself let the tears flow,
But not for me, my love, not for me.Farewell, my love, ours is paradise lost,
Be happy for me as I take my leave,
Keep me forever in your secret thoughts,
But do not grieve, my love, no, do not grieve.Do not weep for me, my love,
For where I go all things start anew,
My heart leaps at what is to come, my love,
I have been to paradise before - with you.OLDHAM CHRONICLE Jan 27 1998 Tues
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
CHALLEN
The family of the late Bernard wishes to thank all Relatives, Friends, and Neighboures for their kind expressions of sympathy received in their sad loss.
Dora SMITH [Parents] was born on 29 Sep 1923 in Fulham St., Oldham. She married Bernard Charles CHALLEN on 19 Nov 1949 in St Pauls', Ashton Rd., Oldham.
They had the following children:
F i Barbara CHALLEN was born in Sep 1950 in Oldham, Lancs. She died on 29 Dec 1950 in Burnley Lane, Chadderton.
Oldham Evening Chronicle 4 Jan 1951
Five month old Barbara Challen of 164 Burnley Lane, Chadderton developed a slight cough on Friday night. She was put to bed but later her parents decided to leave her in the pram for the night. Twice during the night the parents attended to her. When the mother took the baby from the pram on Saturday morning she found the child dead, with one side of its face disfigured.
At the Chadderton Inquest on Wednesday the coroner Mr. A.S.Coupe, said he was quite satisfied that the death was accidental, "but precisely how it happened we will never know." "It does seem likely, he added, "that the child moved the clothes over its mouth. No responsibility can be placed on either parent."
Death was caused by cardiac failure due to asphyxia.M ii David Charles CHALLEN was born on 4 Mar 1954. M iii Michael Bernard CHALLEN was born on 20 Nov 1959. M iv Richard CHALLEN was born on 7 Apr 1966 in Oldham, Lancs.
Oldham Evening Chronicle Monday 11th April 1966
CHALLEN - On Apr 7th at Oldham and District General Hospital to Dora (Nee Smith) and Bernard a son (Richard), a brother for David and Michael. Many thanks to hospital staff - 21 Cardigan Road, Oldham