Press and Interviews

Fancy meeting god? Well, yes, I did think that would make quite an interesting feature for the first issue, but he's got so big these days, you know ...so I had to make do with Marc Riley and the Creepers instead. All the Creepers were there, as well as Jim Khambatta, their manager and head of In Tape Records, but Marc was obviously the one with the most to say, being the founder and main, musical force of the band. He's an imposing personality, almost intimidatingly self-confident but for all the dry northern wit, there's also a certain aristocratic look about him, rather like an R.A.F pilot in an old war film ('My God! Where's Asquith-Jones!'). Appearances can be deceptive though ...

- There's not a lot that could be called positive on 'Fancy Meeting God', or indeed on any of your stuff, isn't it a bit easy just to be negative?

Marc : No, I could write love songs and all that, like everyone else, but it just doesn't interest me. I do the things I like, but I write about the things I don't like

- Why?

Marc : Why? Well, a song about a pint of lager would be boring, songs about how I sit down and night and watch TV with my wife would be pretty boring to most people. I enjoy it, but I don't think many people want to listen to it. But when I'm talking about some scab-faced dog that I've met in the street, people can be quite interested. 'Cos there's a lot of scab-faced dogs knocking about

- Well, don't you think some of your targets are a bit easy then?

Marc : No, not at all. Like I say on the album, 'We don't say, we don't say, we hate Duran Duran and Wham'. You get all the Red skins and all that lot saying, 'Oh, Duran Duran are a pile of crap', but in fact they're a lot better than a lot of other bands. I just take the piss out of things that annoy me

'Oh ! B.K., Monsignor,
My intellectual junior,
I wish the bomb, wish the bomb,
Wish the bomb was not invented,
Menopause, menopause,
Menopause tensions vented.'

- What makes you think Bruce Kent is your intellectual junior?

Marc : Because he's a fool, basically, and I'm not a fool

- Why is he a fool?

Marc : Well, it depends what your angle is on CND, doesn't it, but I think that CND sucks a biggie, and he's the mentor, so he sucks a biggie

- Why do you think CND ...

Marc : Right, obvious question. Because it states the obvious, it's ineffectual, it doesn't do anything, nobody's going to take any notice of it, at all

- What would you like to see them doing instead?

Marc : Just getting on with their lives, instead of going around buying badges and stickers

- How's that going to achieve what they want to achieve?

Marc : Well they're not going to achieve it anyway

- That's pretty defeatist isn't it?

Marc : Well, it's realist. If you're talking about, do you think Ronald Reagan's gonna stop deploying nuclear weapons because there's a 4,000 women sat on a doorstep somewhere, you know they don't give a hoot ... and anyway, they're even outnumbered, if you talk to most of the people in the street they're not that bothered. I mean, it's common sense that's what annoys me about CND, it's common sense, but the fact is, it does exist

- But surely if you have to point something out that should be common sense, that's worth doing. You're saying it's obvious, but it doesn't seem obvious to everyone

Marc : Of course it's obvious. Again on the inside of the album, I put something like : ' I fink people being blown up wouldn't be very nice'. I mean, what's an angle, it's obvious people don't like the fact that people are blown up or stabbed, but these things exist, and once someones invented them, the only time they'll become redundant is when there's something better, and they'll only stop putting nuclear weapons all over the place when they invent something that more destructive and cheaper

- What do you think of seriously political bands?

Marc : I think it's alright, if that's what they want to do, again it's like the ' Oh ! B.K.' thing, I just don't like them stating the obvious. You know, when you go to a miners' benefit and they shout after every song, 'Support the Miners!', it just makes me ill. We did a miners' benefit, but we just kept schtum. The people who went there, went because they wanted to see the band, and if they were really tories, they would have made their stance and said, 'No fuck this, I'll go and see 'em next time'. You get all these bands who say like : 'this one's about the scabs who went back today'. Well, fuck me, y'know

The obvious bands are touted as examples, i.e. Redskins, New Model Army etc

Jim : The Three Johns are pretty bad as well, it's funny with them, were on the same bill as they were once and they were going, like 'Kick Thatcher Out', and being really aggressive onstage, but when a scuffle broke out at the front, it's a 'Hey, come on lads, no fighting'

Marc : I mean, The Three Johns are alright, but they said 'Kill the Scabs' and then when some punk rocker starts some trouble with a girl, and the girl smacks him they go 'Right, we're off, we're not having any of this violence'. Then you get tits like Paul Weller saying we should be stocking the Greenham Common women with wirecutter. They think by doing that, that can get the weapons out, but it just won't. It's incredible, people who think that way, I just can't ... it's beyond belief. My opinion on the CND thing is vastly unpopular, I know, but people just don't give any thought as to whether things are really going to happen or not

- People like Weller and The Redskins seem to be not just serious, but totally humourless

Marc : Weller's the worst, fucking jumped up little middle-class bastard. He just thinks he's so important, walking around with a beret on, singing about having a cup of tea in France or summat, then the next minute he's telling us to get wirecutters to Greenham Common, well he can stick his head up his arse. Basically

People like Billy Bragg, I know they mean what they say, he's got his own opinions and he believes in them, he's not just bullshitting, but I can't see how some red-faced Tory in Brighton's going to change his opinion, just because Billy Bragg's got a record in the charts. I mean, I know he's after the kids, but why can't he let them grow up on their own and work it out for themselves?

- Maybe because if they grow up on their own they'll grow up with lots of other influences which are taking them in completely the opposite direction

Marc : Like what?

- Like Duran Duran and Wham?

Marc : Oh what ! don't be silly now. 'Union of the Snake', is that about Thatcher or something?

- Just their lifestyles, their attitudes, surely that was the whole point of 'Location Bangladesh'?

'Yeah, Video Bangladesh! Take One - flick a switch. The extras are dying - dig a ditch'

Marc : I don't mind Duran Duran, I think there's a lot worse evils knocking around the record industry than them by a way and most of them are credible and respected. 'Bangladesh' - all this poncing about all over the place, in Africa and so on, it was obviously all record company stuff, and it worked, because it made them one of the most popular band in the world, but the record was just to take the piss out of that angle, so I put them in Bangladesh

- You can't say that's just for laughs, though, it is making some sort of serious point

Marc : It is, yeah, but it's not that I think Duran Duran are the anti-Christ, they're just young popstars, they don't annoy me. People really have a go at Nik Kershaw as well, you know the sixteen year-old girls and all that, but it's easy meat, anyone can take the piss out of Nik Kershaw, it's a waster of breath. Pop records can't offend me really, because they mean nothing to me, they're not even worth thinking about, most of them

- Was being in The Fall a good grounding, as it were, for having your own band?

Marc : the best. I reckon The Fall was the best band for many a year, and you can't do any better then that, can your, really?

- Despite the pressure of working with Mark?

Marc : Yeah, you have to take the rough with the smooth. If you come across someone with talent and they feel they've got something to do, they can be a bit ruthless about it. If the going were to get rough, I'd have to be ruthless, too, I'm quite prepared to be

- When you were in The Fall, did you resent his absolute power and dominance over the band?

Marc : I didn't resent it, but it was stifling, yeah. I understand that he's got to do it, because he's got a sort of vision that he wants to do, you know, but it's pretty much they way I'm doing it now

- Why shouldn't it be stifling in the same way for The Creepers

Marc : Well, because they can write material if they want, they write lyrics for their own bands, Eddie's got his own band, Pete and Paul have got Shout! Bamalam, (what used to to Kiss the Blade). The Creepers was originally formed just as a vehicle for me, obviously the first two singles were just marc riley, but to play live it's helpful to get a band behind you !

- So you don't see any problems with you becoming a Mark Smith-type character?

General derision, ('He's calling you a megalomaniac' etc.)

Marc : No, it's not something I worry about, I've got something to do and I'm doing it. I mean, if the guys hated it, really hated being in The Creepers, they could go

The other members of the band confirm that they're pretty content to take a back seat to Marc. Because he writes almost all the music, as well as the words, there's a real difference between him and mark Smith, as well as the fact that all the other are involved in their own projects, which smith presumably would never tolerate

- Because you obviously enjoy doing something where you are in charge, was it inevitable that you would eventually leave The Fall?

Marc : No, not really, the only reason that the split happened in The Fall, was because I wasn't getting on with mark, and the music was getting a bit naff. The Fall did need to change. They've done some great stuff since I've gone, I can't sit here and say they've done crap since I left, but they've obviously taken a commercial bent now, which I don't think has done them any good. I think they're aiming at a new market, there's a lot of people coming to see our gigs now who are just disillusioned Fall fans, which is alright by me, because I maintain that The Creepers now are doing what The Fall were doing before

- Have any of The Creepers songs been about Mark E, 'Shadow Figure', for example?

Marc : No, it's not about Mark, it's just about growing up, it's about friendships. I've never really been a great buddy of Mark's, just his workmate

- Hasn't it been taken to be about him?

Marc : It certainly has ... people think 'Hole 4 a soul' is about Mark Smith as well, but it's not. Everything I do, you know, if I ever wrote a song called 'Twat' people'd go, 'Oh it's about Mark Smith, this', but it could just be about Eddie

- Do you think a lot of the interest in The Creepers has been just curiosity about what was going on in The Fall?

Marc : i think originally a lot of people were interested in me because I was in the Fall, but more because of the fact that I wrote a lot of the music, and they were Fall fans, that's just natural really

- But because The Fall have tended to be rather unforthcoming, people wanted to find out about them form you once you'd left?

Marc : You'd have to ask the people who were asking it really. They'd come to me with bait to try and get me into arguments about Smith, it was an obvious sort of slanging match, and I think I did alright out of it, considering he's supposed to be the 'Slang King'. That supposedly has packed in now, Brix has been round to see me a couple of times and said she's asked him to stop it. That suits me, I'm not bothered one way or the other

- Have you got any regrets about how 'Gross Out' turned out, as far as the production's concerned, or do you stand by it completely?

Marc : Oh, stand by it totally, if I didn't stand by it, I wouldn't have put it out in the first place. I am into that kind of thing, as I have said before I think 'Dragnet' is the best Fall L.P

- How do you feel now about the two versions of 'Snipe!', the one on 'Gross Out', and the one on the 'Shadow Figure' E.P.?

Marc : Well obviously the Shadow Figure' one displays the song, but I think catching the song the second time it's ever been played was great, I mean it was written and played once, and the second time we taped it, and it's got the real spark in it. You obviously don't agree

- Er, no

Jim : your ear might disagree with it, but that's how the band felt about it at the time, that the song came out, which is great, that you do a song in 15 minutes and you think there's something there that's good enough for an album

Marc : I prefer to listen to the 'Gross Out' version, I think it's more interesting. It's a pretty standard sort of song, but not on 'Gross Out' it's not

Jim : 'Snipe !' is too easy to put down, people say 'Oh, it doesn't sound nice' which is a very easy criticism, because it is pretty rough

Marc : Going back to what we were saying before 'Snipe!' was like an exorcism of all the things that I like, I put all the things I like into one song, people were saying, 'Oh, you never write about what you like', so I wrote one song completely about what I like, then they can sod off for the rest!

- What's the point of writing songs with brilliant word, if like, on 'Gross Out', it's very difficult, or impossible to hear them?

Marc : No, it's not precious the words aren't that important, none of our songs change people's lives. They can sit there and smile because they think, 'yeah, I know a twat like that' or 'Yeah, that's happened to me' or whatever, but if they do or if they don't, it's not really important. I think you can hear the words on most of our stuff anyway, but we're a rock 'n' roll band, I mean, I could write poetry, I think Mark Smith writes poetry, I don't, I'm not into writing poetry, but I've got a vehicle to use, it is music, and I've got to use it as such, not write a book or something

- Is that is your criteria for success, is there any middle way between chart success and cult success?

Marc : Well, there's no way I can really look at it in those sort of terms, because I just write songs that I think are good, and if other people get into them that is great. I think a lot of the stuff we've done has been really commercial, but everyone else seems to disagree. If something's good, it's commercial, to me, I think the Velvets are commercial. I mean, not if you're talking about 'Sister Ray' or something, but 'Sunday Morning', to me that's pop music

- It seems as if The Fall's idea of success is to be remembered as a great cult band, who no-one really liked at the time, it's been said often enough they they want to be the new Velvet Underground ...

Marc : But that 's only been said because they were quality, people have seven said the same thing about the Creepers, only in far fewer numbers of course, but people say things like, 'gross Out' will be held up as a classic in ten year time. It's not something you can aim at though

- But it's sometimes seems as if that's exactly what Mark E. is doing.

Marc : No, no, it may sound like blind arrogance, but he just wanted to do something that was good, that was better than anyone else, and he did it. If I was set to out to sound like The Ramones, then I would never be remembered as being very inspirational or anything, if 100, 000 people go out and see The Creepers tomorrow, then I would be a cult, but I'd still be writing the same stuff

Jim : We haven't done anything different, Marc's still producing songs that he's proud of and it's for people to make up their own minds

Marc : To me, the equality between 'Jumper Clown' and, say, something like 'Elastic Man', they're all in the same boat, I regard them all as great records, but The Fall started off with the punk thing, and picked up a punk audience, then they drifted through the student audience and they were quite fortunate in that respect, though they deserved what they got, but now, we're fighting a real uphill struggle

Jim : That's why we do ... not struggle, but we don't sell as many records as a band who've got an easy sort of image, you know, we get a really mixed bunch coming to see us

Marc : Child molester, you know, anyone ...

(Snipe Fanzine, Number 1, May 1985 pp. 12-16)