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Full-text: November 12 2003
Protest zones: “No War for Oil” (October 24 2002)

United States District Court for the District of South Carolina Columbia Division

Filed, JAN 6 2004, Larry W. Propes, Clerk, Columbia S.C.

 




Cr. No.: 3:03-309
Columbia, S.C.
November 12, 2003

 )
United States of America)
)
versus)
)
Brett A. Bursey)
 )

Volume I
Transcript of Non-Jury Trial
Before the Honorable Bristow Marchant United States Magistrate Judge

Appearances:

For the Government: John Barton, Esq.
Assistant U.S. Attorney
1441 Main Street, Suite 500
Columbia, S.C. 29201
For the Defendant: P. Lewis Pitts, Jr., Esq.
1030 Carolina Avenue
Durham, N.C. 27705
  C. Rauch Wise, Esq.
305 Main Street
Greenwood, S.C. 29646-2757
Court Reporter: Gary N. Smith, CM
1845 Assembly Street
Columbia, S.C. 29201
(803) 256-7743

______________________

Stenotype/Computer-Aided Transcription

Gary N. Smith, CM
Columbia, SC {p.1-2}

______________________

The Court:  All right. We are on the record in the case of United States of America versus Brett Bursey, and that is Criminal Number 3:03-309, and counsel are here, as is the defendant.

And I do apologize, I know we probably had a lot of public interest in this case and these courtrooms just seat however many they seat. We did manage to put some people in the jury box and we looted some chairs from other courtrooms and have managed to put some people over here. But we did the best we could.

I understand from the previous discussions with counsel the witnesses have been sequestered in the case? Correct?

Mr. Barton:  That’s correct, Your Honor.

The Court:  Is that right, Mr. Pitts?

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir, Your Honor.

The Court:  And I am advised that counsel are going to forego opening statements?

Mr. Barton:  That’s correct, Your Honor.

The Court:  Is that right?

Mr. Pitts:  That’s right.

The Court:  Well, then, Mr. Barton you can call your first witness.

Mr. Barton:  The government calls Douglas Cohen.

Douglas Cohen, Sworn {p.1-3}

The Court:  Let me ask — we are in a new courthouse and a new courtroom, we have had — we had a trial in here last week and we had some problems with the sound system. I see you are already there, but just both counsel, if you can, when you are questioning your witnesses, if y’all can use that podium — I know that microphone works — you can make sure you speak into your microphone.

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I’m afraid my problem is, if I’m standing here — I’m a little thick — Mr. Pitts can’t see through me.

The Court:  Well, I would say he could sit in your seat, but you probably —

Mr. Barton:  Can I move it down this way?

The Court:  I’m not sure — there’s a cord on it, if you want to move it down, that’s fine too.

Mr. Barton:  How about —

The Court:  That’s better — well, now you are in front of Mr. Wise.

Mr. Barton:  Of course, over here, the problem is going to be, when they are talking, they are going to be in front of me, unless we go all the way down there.

Mr. Wise:  If you can move it to about right here you will be fine. That’s good.

The Court:  Is that good? All right.

Direct Examination {p.1-4}

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Can you see me?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  State your full name again for the court.

A.  Douglas Cohen.

Q.  And by whom are you employed, please, sir?

A.  The U.S. Secret Service.

Q.  And in what capacity?

A.  I’m a special agent.

Q.  How long have you been employed by the Secret Service?

A.  Roughly ten years and eight months.

Q.  Would you tell the court where and what your duties have been — where you have served and what your duties have been?

A.  I started in the Chicago field office where I conducted criminal investigations, did that for approximately six years, and was transferred to the presidential protective division, also known as PPD, four and-a-half years ago.

Q.  Is that where you are currently assigned?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Would you describe for the court what the duties and responsibilities are of agents assigned to — I will just call it the PPD, the presidential protective detail?

A.  We provide personal security for the president and his family.

Q.  Do you also involve yourself in — well, what is involved {p.1-5} in providing protective security for the president and his family?

A.  Well, we conduct advances and also personal protection, for lack of a better definition, personal protection that cloaks him, circled around the president. The advance work being all the preparatory work that goes into a visit ahead of time.

Q.  And do these visits include both domestic and foreign visits?

A.  Yes, they do.

Q.  And the visit to Columbia, South Carolina on October 24th, 2002, that’s typical of a visit, or an example of one of the visits you are talking about?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Did you participate in the advance of the site preparation for that particular visit?

A.  Yes, I did, I was the site agent.

Q.  How many other visits have you participated in in some aspect of preparation of the advance?

A.  For the advance, probably 25 to 30.

Q.  Okay. And that’s in the four and-a-half years you have been on the PPD; is that correct?

A.  Well, that’s as a site person. I have also done other types of advances, as another different entity. But overall, I would say probably 100 advances that I have been involved in. But as a site person, like I was on this visit, about 25. {p.1-6}

Q.  Okay. I want you to explain to the court, or give the court a brief overview of what the Secret Service does in connection with this advance work for a presidential visit.

Starting with, how far before a visit takes place does the Secret Service, or the presidential protective detail get involved with the visit?

A.  Approximately a week before the scheduled date of the visit the advance team arrives in the city to be visited, for a domestic visit.

Q.  Now, that doesn’t include agents in the location, that’s coming out of the presidential protective detail?

A.  That’s correct. We marry up with someone in the field office from the local community we visit.

Q.  How many agents from the PPD come down on an advance?

A.  It varies on the visit, but usually between 10 and 12.

Q.  Okay. Would you — and does each one of those 10 to 12 agents have separate responsibilities?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Would you describe for the court what some of those responsibilities are, what they are in charge of and what they entail?

A.  There’s an airport agent, and he’s responsible for the advance and the security at the airport. There are site agents for every site, venue, that is visited, there will be a motorcade agent — {p.1-7}

Q.  Before you go on, what does — the site agent at a venue, what is that person’s responsibility?

A.  They will become familiar with that site, walk through it with staff, find out what the event is going to be, and then build the security around it. Become intimate with the site and coordinate with other entities that are also doing advances to provide the security for the perimeter.

Q.  And you said there is a site agent for each site —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — on a visit? So, if the president goes to three different locations in Columbia, there will be a site agent for each location?

A.  That’s right.

Q.  Go ahead. Other responsibilities?

A.  There will be a motorcade advance agent, and they will coordinate with the police and pick out and route all the primary motorcade routes, the emergency motorcade routes, the emergency landing zone routes, the hospital routes, emergency landing zones — if there’s a problem, if they have to fly in, say, helicopters and pick up the president. They would coordinate all the routes for the visit.

Q.  Is there more than one route of the motorcade planned?

A.  Every destination and — according to the destination has probably four routes that are associated with it.

Q.  Okay. And the motorcade agents are responsible for {p.1-8} identifying all of those?

A.  Identifying them and coordinating with securing the routes.

Q.  Okay. Go ahead.

A.  We have a technical security advance. They are responsible for the environment the president is in, whether it be chemical, biological, air quality. They control the bomb sweeps, explosive devices, bomb sweeps. They also worry about structural integrity of the buildings and stages that he might be on.

And then we have counter sniper advance, or also known as CS. They coordinate and do an advance — an assessment on long range threats, basically a sniper threat, and discuss with the site people how to mitigate that long range threat.

Q.  Okay. Is there something known as a CS or counter sniper response team as well?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  What is their responsibility?

A.  Their responsibility would be to go out to respond to anything that is of concern on the day of the visit that the counter sniper team sees. And they use optics, binoculars and so forth to look out far.

So, if they would see something that would concern them, they would send an agent and a police officer to investigate at whatever would be — would concern them. {p.1-9}

Q.  Give me an example of what they might see that would give them a concern?

A.  It could be something, you know, 600 yards away, an open window that looks into the site where the president might be. And they would have that team go look and investigate that open window. It could be someone on a hilltop, you know, 100 yards away.

Q.  Okay. Other responsibilities? Is there a counter assault team?

A.  Counter assault team. They are kind of like a SWAT team, they do a tactical assessment of all the venues and how they would respond if there was an organized assault on the president. Also coordinate with the police in the division of labor for what the police responsibilities would be and what our tactical team responsibilities would be.

Q.  How about metal detectors, is anybody in charge of that?

A.  Yes, there are metal detector advance individuals that comes out and determines where the best place — the metal detectors are to be placed, and how many they would need to facilitate processing all of the guests into a venue.

Q.  Okay. There’s something known as protective intelligence?

A.  Protective intelligence teams are — an individual comes out from our — it’s actually called the intelligence division.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And they do the intelligence advance for the visit. {p.1-10}

Anything that could affect the visit, as far as a threat or anything that could be deemed — the theft of police uniforms, theft of explosives, threats to other prominent individuals that might be in the same place the president is at that time, they do that advance and coordinate. They have protective intelligence teams at every site.

Q.  Okay. What is the role of the local Secret Service office say here in Columbia, if a visit comes here?

A.  Columbia would provide a counterpart to every advance entity from the presidential protective division that comes to town. It’s basically a redundant system so if something happens to the person from the advance — from the president’s detail, there is someone there to pick up the ball and run with it. They know everything, they work with you intimately.

They also know the rules of the local area that we are visiting, so we don’t come into town and demand stuff or ask for stuff that isn’t available. They can facilitate getting things done.

Q.  Do the state and local police get involved with the Secret Service in connection with the visit?

A.  Yes, we coordinate with them.

Q.  What types of things do you coordinate?

A.  Well, the secure perimeter or restricted areas are all determined with — I think in conjunction with them, also the motorcade routes. And, every aspect of the visit is {p.1-11} discussed with our police counterparts as well.

Q.  Do you have briefings where all of this is discussed among everybody?

A.  Yes, we do.

Q.  Well, how often do those take place?

A.  With the police, our initial briefing, with all of the entities together, would be typically the day we get to town or the day after we get to town.

And then we break up into groups, various responsibilities, so the police that are going to handle the motorcades would go with the motorcade advance agent, the police that are going to handle site venue number one would go with the Secret Service personnel that are responsible for that, and then they would have daily contact after that with the police on that.

Q.  This is all going on the week prior to the president’s actual arrival?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Does the Secret Service bring — so you have got Secret Service agents from the presidential protective detail, you have got the local Secret Service agents?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Does the Secret Service also bring in additional agents from other offices when there is a presidential visit?

A.  Yes, sir. Our restricted area manpower, or perimeter, is {p.1-12} set up by — well, the agents’ plan, the advance agents’ plan, by how many people they are going to need to secure a venue. And then they go to the field offices and request the manpower.

So, they bring in other additional manpower to secure the perimeters and the venues usually the day before the visit, and then they are briefed on what they are going to do.

Q.  So, the agents coming in who haven’t been there, get them briefed before the visit occurs?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Can you — are those agents simply known as post standers?

A.  That’s right.

Mr. Pitts:  Your Honor, I realize we don’t have a jury, but I would object to leading questions.

Mr. Barton:  It’s background, I’m just trying to get through some of this, Your Honor —

The Court:  You are leading a little bit.

Mr. Barton:  All right.

The Court:  Don’t tell him what to say.

Mr. Barton:  Okay.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Could you give the court an estimation of approximately how many agents would typically come in on a visit, other Secret Service agents from other locations?

A.  Okay. We don’t like to give the specific numbers, but on a visit like this, for our post standers, to our perimeter {p.1-13} agents, we bring in — between 50 and 100 would be reasonable.

Q.  Okay. And I believe you testified you were involved in the October 24th visit?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  And what was your responsibility there?

A.  I was the site agent at Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  Okay. And how far in advance of the October 24th visit did you actually arrive?

A.  Six or seven days.

Q.  And how did you spend those six or seven days prior to the president’s arrival? Tell the court what your activities were.

A.  I spent the majority of the week at the site, walking every inch of the site, learning the ways in and out of the site and how we are going to get the public in, how we are going to be able to secure that site while allowing the public to come in through the metal detectors. And also defining our restricted areas around the site.

Also, we also coordinate with and discuss all the technical security issues with our technical security advance, the counter assault issues with the counter assault advance, the counter sniper issues with the counter sniper advance, all the other entities that are a part of the advance come to the site that I was doing, the Doolittle Hanger, to give me input on how best to secure that area and also their expertise.

Q.  Can you relate to the court any of the specific things you {p.1-14} can recall doing with regard to the Doolittle Hanger itself?

A.  I’m sorry, I — I went around to figure out all the ways into the building, and also how I was going to secure that as far as the posting of the post standers and the police.

Q.  Were there any — I don’t know — the technical issues that came up, for instance, from the technical security people, any issues come up?

A.  Sure. There were some issues that — in that hanger there is a parts room that was very hard to do a bomb sweep in, so we needed extra time to do a bomb sweep in there because they had crates and so forth. There wasn’t any —

The Court:  To do a what? I’m sorry.

The Witness:  Bomb sweep.

The Court:  Okay.

The Witness:  To do a bomb sweep. Which in that hanger I believe took about two hours to complete a bomb sweep. And at that point we clear out everybody from the building and complete a bomb sweep, and that’s prior to opening the metal detectors. And then at that point everyone coming in would be clean from the metal detector standpoint.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  How about counter sniper? Any issues in —

A.  Counter sniper had some areas of concern that looked into our arrival area. And we discussed ways that we could mitigate those areas of concern from a long range threat. They also {p.1-15} were posted on top of the building and had observations throughout the visit there.

Q.  How did you mitigate the concerns of that?

A.  We — we parked a couple of large trucks that block the line of sight to that arrival area, in the way of the spots that looked into the arrival area.

Q.  Do you recognize this as the general area around the Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Yes, I do.

Mr. Barton:  Without objection, I would move to admit Government’s Exhibit Number 1.

The Court:  Government’s Exhibit 1 without objection?

Mr. Pitts:  That’s correct.

Your Honor, may I approach?

The Court:  Yes, sir.

Mr. Barton:  May the witness step down so he can point to the areas he’s referring to?

The Court:  If you want to turn it, you can turn it that way so you can let people see.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Agent Cohen, would you point out the Doolittle Hanger on there?

A.  (Indicating).

Q.  Okay. And where was the public going to be entering the Doolittle Hanger? {p.1-16}

A.  They are going to be coming in the open — the bay doors are on this side, this is the Tarmac out here.

Q.  Yes.

A.  And the bay doors were open and they were going to come in around the hanger into the open bay doors.

Q.  Where was the magnetometer set up?

A.  They were set up right over here.

Q.  So, before they went in, they had to go through the metal detectors?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  The vehicles you parked, where did you park vehicles to resolve any security issues you had about the hanger?

A.  Well, the arrival door was right here. That’s where the motorcade —

The Court:  You need to put — since that’s not going to be in the transcript, you need to say to the left of the building, to the right of the building.

The Witness:  Okay. To the left of the building, I believe.

The Court:  Bottom left-hand corner?

The Witness:  Bottom left-hand corner of the building. And there was a fence also right along here. We parked a couple of trucks on this fence line and this fence line at angles that blocked line of sight from areas of concern that our counter snipers picked out. {p.1-17}

The Court:  That’s on the left-hand side?

The Witness:  On the left-hand side of — the majority of the areas of concern were on the left-hand side of the diagram, farther out from the diagram.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  The grassy area above the Doolittle Hanger, immediately — between Doolittle Hanger and Airport Boulevard, was anything done in that area?

A.  Yes, we used heavy equipment to line this grassy area between the trees.

Q.  What was that for?

A.  To avoid having anyone — avoid having someone coming in off of Airport Boulevard and just slamming into our building, whether it be just a car accident or a car bomb type of situation.

Q.  And that entire area was lined with heavy equipment?

A.  This whole area was lined with heavy equipment.

Q.  Where was it intended that people coming to this particular location were to park?

A.  There was a college off Lexington Avenue up top of this diagram that there was a parking lot at, and that’s where they were supposed to park.

Q.  How were they to approach?

A.  They were supposed to walk. It’s only about, I believe, a quarter of a mile. {p.1-18}

Q.  And where were they to gather to enter into the Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Well, all the particular guests were to line up along this fence line, along the top part of the building here on the public side, and then come around the right side of the building into where the metal detectors were set up.

Q.  During the visit on the 24th, was the airport to remain open, the terminal to remain open?

A.  Yes.

Q.  You mentioned setting up the restricted area, would you describe for the court where the restricted area — the Secret Service established around the Doolittle Hanger?

A.  The restricted area went from along Airport Boulevard up to the next intersection to the left of this diagram — which I’m not sure of the street name on that — about 100 yards up Lexington Avenue to the top of this diagram, basically to the mouth of the parking lot entrance, I believe, for the college.

The Court:  What’s that road?

The Witness:  This is Lexington Avenue.

The Court:  Lexington Avenue. Okay.

A.  And then down Airport Boulevard all the way to 302, which was the motorcade route, primary and emergency.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Okay. And how about back down toward the bottom of the diagram? {p.1-19}

A.  Back down toward the bottom of the diagram, all this area actually on the diagram came in through — I believe this is Eagle Aviation here — came in through Eagle Aviation and on the Tarmac to the fence line of the building to the right of this diagram would have been our secure area —

Q.  Now —

A.  — or restricted area.

Q.  And why does the Secret Service establish this restricted area?

A.  To protect the president from being harmed.

Q.  Okay. How were the parameters or the dimensions of where the restricted area is conveyed to the police, for instance?

A.  We told them. We discussed it with them. We tell them.

Q.  And while you were out there the week ahead of time, is that when you determined where you thought the — should be, the restricted area should be?

A.  Yes, based on what the staff told us he was going to do, the president was going to do, we build our security around it and we discuss it with the police. And during that whole week we talk about where it should be.

Q.  Does the Secret Service place any — on this visit, on the 24th — any barricades, cones — how was it an individual would know where the restricted area was?

A.  We put the police and the agents out.

Q.  Okay. And so at the end of each one of those descriptions {p.1-20} or areas you described —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — a police officer and an agent would have been posted; is that your testimony?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  How does the Secret Service determine who can enter or pass through a restricted area?

A.  Well, in this scenario we were assuming anyone coming to the venue would be authorized to come here.

Q.  How did the person gain access into the venue? Did they have to have anything to get in?

A.  Into the Doolittle Hanger, for the event itself, they needed to have a ticket that the staff prints.

Q.  Is the Secret Service involved in the printing, distribution, or checking of the tickets?

A.  No.

Q.  So, I believe you said you assumed everyone coming there was continuing to go to the Doolittle Hanger?

Mr. Pitts:  Objection, leading.

The Court:  That’s sustained.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Well, how do you determine who is entitled to enter or pass through the restricted area?

A.  In this case the police were asking folks that came across if they had tickets; if they did, to go to the line. {p.1-21}

The Court:  Came across where?

The Witness:  From the parking lot.

The Court:  The parking lot is to the north?

The Witness:  Is this the north in this diagram?

Mr. Barton:  I believe that is in fact —

The Witness:  If up is north on this diagram, that is correct.

The Court:  Well, north on the diagram, put it that way.

The Witness:  Yes.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  The top of the diagram?

A.  The top of the diagram was the parking lot for the school. And for that matter, if anyone came from anywhere walking up, if they didn’t come from the parking lot, if they walked up to the Doolittle Hanger, we would assume that they were coming to the event.

Q.  What would change that assumption?

A.  Anything unusual about people not going to the line, not having a ticket.

Q.  How do you determine who passed through? Were cars allowed on Airport Boulevard?

A.  Yes, they were, up until right before his arrival, yes, we would allow cars to pass through.

Q.  And why is that? {p.1-22}

A.  Just to effect the commerce of the area, allow airport business to be conducted. And we let them pass through, we don’t let them stay. We would let them pass through.

Q.  Okay. You can take your seat back.

Is it — does the United States Secret Service on a visit such as this ever completely close all access to a restricted area?

A.  On a visit such as this there’s — no.

Q.  How about — at no point is access —

A.  Well, at some point, right when the president is about to arrive, we shut down all access, even to Airport Boulevard, in this case, to all traffic and all foot traffic, yes.

Q.  What if somebody has got a ticket?

A.  They wouldn’t be allowed in at that point.

Q.  Why is that done?

A.  For the same reason — well, it’s so that no one can cause — cause the president harm. At that point they are not — they are in our secure or restricted area, but they are not screened until they come to the building.

And with his arrival being imminent, we don’t want anyone who is unknown, but may be authorized to be there but unknown to us — for example, someone with a ticket — in that area.

Q.  Are there individuals who are known — how do you determine who is allowed in that area, once it’s completely shut down? {p.1-23}

A.  The law enforcement we place there, so we know them. There is also — we have a lapel pen identification system that we issue for every visit that identifies certain entities, such as staff or military, communications people, so forth, that we are going to authorize to be in our secure or restricted area.

Q.  And was it the intent of the Secret Service on this visit to at some point shut down the entire restricted area, as you have described it here?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Why was this intersection shut down, Agent Cohen?

A.  Two reasons. One, it was our emergency egress upon arrival, and our primary egress for when we left for the motorcade route when we departed. And also it was in close proximity to the arrival area, close enough that someone standing there that was unscreened could cause harm.

Q.  What type of harm were you concerned about from someone standing there?

A.  Anything from pistol fire to throwing rocks to introducing a chemical or biological agent in the air in that area.

Q.  And you said that was your primary emergency egress route?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  What type of emergency are you talking about?

A.  Anything from an attack, to an actual emergency, we have to get him somewhere safe. Or even a broken leg, if he falls, or something like that, we want to be able to have that area clear {p.1-24} so we can go to the hospital.

Q.  And are you familiar with how the motorcade intended to approach the Doolittle Hanger and then leave the Doolittle Hanger? Are you familiar with the motorcade route?

A.  Yes, I am. He was supposed to come into the hanger from the Tarmac side —

Q.  Why don’t you get down and point out to the court —

A.  On this diagram the airport arrival is to the left of the diagram, that’s where the plane stopped and the president entered the motorcade.

They came down the Tarmac going from left to right on the diagram, and then turned up to the lower left-hand side of the Doolittle Hanger on this diagram. That was the arrival.

For departure they were going to pull out across this parking lot, make a slow — it’s almost a U-turn onto Airport Boulevard, which is a right-hand turn on this diagram, down to 302.

Q.  And where was the president intending to go after — upon departing?

A.  The Sheraton Hotel downtown.

Q.  What was the purpose of going to the Sheraton Hotel downtown?

A.  I believe he had some downtime and maybe a meeting or something in the suite that he was — that he had downtime.

Q.  Was this a public event or — {p.1-25}

A.  No, it wasn’t.

Q.  Okay. From the time the motorcade would have left Doolittle Hanger until it arrived at the Sheraton, do you have an opinion, based on your experience, as to where the presidential limousine would have been traveling the slowest?

A.  At this turn at — from Doolittle Hanger onto Airport Boulevard.

Q.  Are you referring on this diagram to the intersection of Airport Boulevard and Lexington Avenue?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  As part of the planning before the president’s actual arrival on the 24th, are you familiar with whether or not an area for demonstrators had been designated?

A.  An area had been designated by the police, yes.

Q.  What is the Secret Service’s role in the demonstration area? You can return to your seat, I’m sorry.

A.  Thanks. It depends on the state we go to, because all the states have different laws on demonstrations areas. But we just coordinate with the police to find out if they are going to set up the demonstration area, and if so that it doesn’t interfere with our security plans.

Q.  Okay. What other role, if any, does the Secret Service have with that?

A.  With the selection of the —

Q.  Yes. {p.1-26}

A.  We just want to make sure that it doesn’t interfere with our security plan or public safety, as far as — we discuss it with the police but we don’t pick it out.

Q.  Do you tell the police to set up a demonstration area?

A.  No.

Q.  Was one established for the visit on October 24th?

A.  Yes, there was.

Q.  Do you know the location of it?

A.  It was at the corner of Airport Boulevard and 302.

Q.  And did it meet your security requirements or concerns?

A.  Yeah, it was far enough away from our routes and sites that we — it didn’t —

Q.  How did you learn of the designation of that and its location?

A.  On the — we discussed it with the police and they had told us that this would be the designated demonstration area and asked us if it was a problem for us being there, and we said no.

Q.  When you say the police, who are you talking about? Do you know?

A.  I believe it was an airport police officer, but I don’t remember.

Q.  Who is in charge of that demonstration area, or monitors it or mans it or watches it or secures it, I guess?

A.  The police. {p.1-27}

Q.  The Secret Service involved in that?

A.  No, not unless we thought the demonstration would be — would cause harm in some way to the president.

Q.  Did you have any information about, prior to this visit, any information about any demonstration that would cause harm or concern to the president?

A.  No.

Q.  Okay. I want to direct your attention specifically to the day of October 24th, 2002. Did President George Bush visit Columbia that day?

A.  Yes, he did.

Q.  Do you recall what time — approximately what time he was scheduled to arrive?

A.  Approximately noon.

Q.  Okay. What time did you arrive at the airport that day?

A.  Approximately 6 a.m.

Q.  And what did you — six hours before the president?

A.  Correct.

Q.  What did you do during that period of time?

A.  The post standers, the agents that I had reporting to me were to be there at 7, and the police as well. Then we posted the perimeter with the police and the secure area with our agents as well.

And by 7:30 we began a bomb sweep of the area. And there was supposed to be between 5 and 6,000 people there, so {p.1-28} we had to have it all complete, with enough time to process them into metal detectors, prior to his arrival.

Q.  Do you recall what time people were going to be allowed to go into the hanger, when the doors were going to open up?

A.  I believe it was supposed to be 10 o’clock. I think the tickets told them to be there by 9:30.

Q.  Okay, what else did you do? You were there at 6, what is going on?

A.  We — once the perimeter is set, a bomb sweep takes place, it takes about two hours to do that. And during that time we facilitate, making sure that our security plan is working, making sure that our perimeter site, our secure area is secure and restricted, and while also allowing businesses in the area to conduct business.

Q.  Okay. As people on that morning arrived, were there any problems concerning crowd control and where they were?

A.  Yes, there were.

Q.  What were those?

A.  The staff actually was a little bit late in being ready to let the public into the hanger, and the president was scheduled to be there — not scheduled, he was arriving early.

So, it cut down our time to allow people to get into the event. And there was a large line that went past Eagle Aviation, which is to the left of this, on this diagram, all the way along the parking lot in front of Doolittle Hanger to {p.1-29} the metal detectors.

Q.  Why don’t you take that pointer and show the court where.

A.  The line went from the metal detectors all the way back and up, off this diagram. It was a long line.

Q.  And what concerns did that present to you as the site agent?

A.  Well, with him being early and us not being able to process everyone in, in my mind at the time, I didn’t think we could get everyone in on time for his arrival.

With his arrival being here — that’s the arrival door, as I pointed out earlier — and all these unscreened, unknown public that had tickets out there, they were in an area that I didn’t want anyone in for security purposes.

Q.  So, what did you do? You can sit down, unless you need the diagram. How did you handle the crowd?

A.  What I did is, I didn’t think everyone was going to get in, because he was early. So, I wanted to back the beginning of this line up.

So, we took two police officers and some police tape and basically they held it up in front of the line, and just lifted it up, walked back 30 people, and dropped it, and let those 30 go ahead. And once they filed all the way down to the metal detectors, they did it again.

Eventually, the beginning of the line came back to an area that was without — in my mind, out of an area of concern, {p.1-30} in a harmful way, that anyone in that line wouldn’t be able to cause the president harm.

Q.  How about, were people still arriving in the parking lot?

A.  Yes, they were.

Q.  Was anything done to control those people?

A.  Yes. I had the police that were with me by the hanger radio to a police officer that was at the neck of that parking lot to keep — have them keep all those people over there until this line filed down, so we do not add to this line.

Q.  And where were you during all of this process?

A.  I was all over in this area. I was walking back and forth between sites, seeing how the processing was going, and also out here trying to spearhead backing this line up and making this a sterile area for arrival.

Q.  Were you able to get everybody in?

A.  We were able to get everybody in.

Q.  Were you able to get everybody in before the area was completely closed down to anybody else coming in?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Did the president arrive early, or was he on time?

A.  He was five minutes early.

Q.  Okay.

A.  They did arrive to the airspace early, but because the staff wasn’t ready to have a hanger full and all the guests in, they called up Air Force One and had them circle so that we {p.1-31} could — so they could facilitate getting everyone in, because they knew once he arrived I wasn’t going to let anyone in.

Q.  So, they made the president wait on y’all?

A.  They made them wait.

Q.  Did there come a time prior to the president’s arrival when the entire area was in fact shut down?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Before we get to that, two things, was there any consideration of this being what is known as a tented arrival?

A.  Yes, there was consideration of that.

Q.  And tell the court what that is.

A.  We set up a tent, usually 20 by 30 feet for the motorcade, for the car, the limo to actually pull into so that no one can see him get out of the car. And it’s usually to help aid with the long range threat, a sniper type threat.

Q.  And what parts of a presidential visit like this are of the most concern to Secret Service?

A.  Our arrivals and departures.

Q.  Why is that?

A.  Because history has shown that most attacks happen at arrivals and departures.

Q.  Okay. While you were out here dealing with this crowd, did you see — do you know Agent Holly Able?

A.  Yes, I do.

Q.  Did you see her in conversations with anyone out in this {p.1-32} general area?

A.  Yes, I did.

Q.  Do you know what they were talking about? Did you participate in any of that conversation?

A.  No, I did not.

Q.  But you saw them out there talking?

A.  Yes, I did.

Q.  Do you recall approximately where they were?

A.  They were in the vicinity of the parkway on the corner of Airport Boulevard and the parking lot of Doolittle Hanger by the Lexington — or by the intersection.

Q.  Why don’t you point that out.

A.  They were in this vicinity here.

Q.  And I believe that little red or that little white square there says “stop sign;” is that right?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Somewhere in that area?

A.  Somewhere in that area.

Q.  Okay. I was asking you if prior to the president’s arrival this entire area was shut down?

A.  Correct.

Q.  How was that communicated to everyone out there?

A.  When we hear on the radio that Air Force One was on final approach, I knew that I had about 10 minutes before he would leave the airplane at — the airplane would stop at the airport {p.1-33} where the motorcade would pick him up. And that was going to be my sign to shut down everything, which would allow me about 10 or 15 minutes.

Q.  And was this area in fact shut down at that time?

A.  When I saw Agent Able talking to somebody, no, it wasn’t.

Q.  How long did it take to shut it down?

A.  How long after that?

Q.  Yes, if you can recall.

A.  I — five or 10 minutes.

Q.  Okay. Was any traffic allowed on Airport Boulevard at that time?

A.  When we shut it down? No.

Q.  After you shut it down.

A.  No.

Q.  Were any individuals allowed to come down Lexington Avenue or from any other direction to enter Doolittle Hanger?

Mr. Pitts:  Objection, he’s leading, Your Honor.

The Court:  That’s not a leading question, Your Honor.

The Court:  That’s overruled.

A.  No, there was no one allowed. That area was to be sterile.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  And who was allowed in that area? Who was authorized at that point to be in that area?

A.  Just the known authorized individuals that we discussed, {p.1-34} being military police, law enforcement, staff, communications folks.

Q.  Did the president arrive without incident?

A.  Yes, he did.

Q.  Was the restricted area at any point opened back up?

A.  Yes.

Q.  After his arrival?

A.  Yes.

Q.  At what point?

A.  Once he was inside, and I would say two or three minutes after the dust settles, we open it back up.

Q.  Who was traveling with the president on Air Force One that participated in this event?

A.  Secret Service-wise or anybody?

Q.  Anybody.

A.  There’s staff, there are communication folks, sometimes there’s guests. Congressional delegation sometimes and also Secret Service.

Q.  And when —

A.  Press as well.

Q.  When the restricted area was opened back up, who was it opened back up to?

A.  When you say the restricted area opened back up, I mean open back up like it was at 7:30 in the morning where we allowed traffic to go back toward — you know, at the airport, {p.1-35} allow commerce at the airport and other business along Airport Boulevard. But other than that, right around the hanger, it was still shut down, there was no one allowed to come in.

Q.  And that intersection of Airport Boulevard and Lexington Avenue, were individuals allowed in that area?

A.  Not to stay there. They could pass through to go to the airport, but they couldn’t stay there.

Q.  Okay. Was the restricted area closed again prior to the president’s departure from Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Yes, it was.

Q.  How long — how did you know when to shut it down?

A.  Typically when he’s — he gives a speech and then he goes down and shakes hands — we call it the rope line, shaking hands along the rope line — when he’s about halfway down the rope line, we typically go ahead and start shutting the road down and the area for — to prepare for his departure.

Q.  And were any vehicles allowed on — once it was shut at that point, were any vehicles allowed on Airport Boulevard, Lexington Avenue, anywhere in that area?

A.  Just motorcade vehicles.

Q.  Other than the motorcade —

A.  No.

Q.  — and other than the known authorized people in that area, were any individuals ultimately to be allowed in that area?

A.  No, that was going to remain sterile again for {p.1-36} the departure.

Mr. Barton:  Excuse me one moment.

That’s all the questions I have, Agent Cohen, please answer any questions that counsel may have.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts or Mr. Wise, who is going to do it?

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts?

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir. May I have one moment, Your Honor?

The Court:  Yes, sir.

Cross Examination

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Cohen, my name is Lewis Pitts, representing Mr. Bursey, and this is Mr. Rauch Wise at the table. I have a few questions for you.

I assume there was quite an inquiry in the picking out the safest motorcade route, to arrive and depart?

A.  There always is, look at all the routes.

Q.  And you described the intersection of Airport Boulevard and Lexington Drive as — and the Tarmac as the most dangerous part of the motorcade route?

A.  I would actually say the arrival, the actual arrival and departure would be the most dangerous part.

Q.  But of the motorcade route, I believe you told Mr. Barton {p.1-37} that the U-turn there near that intersection —

A.  That is a very dangerous part, because it’s going so slow, the car is going so slow.

Q.  And did you explore ways for the presidential motorcade to exit Doolittle Hanger without going through that intersection?

A.  I didn’t explore any ways for the motorcade to go, the motorcade advance agent would have.

Q.  But as the site agent in charge, you didn’t review that to see — you spent seven days there prior to the event?

A.  Right. My — our responsibility — we actually have a point of demarcation between the site and the motorcade, as far as areas of responsibility for the security, so we don’t duplicate efforts and have, you know, “I will take care of this, you take care of that.”

And the motorcade advance agent told me we were leaving this way. And then — when I say that, I mean from the corner of Doolittle Hanger to the Airport Boulevard and Lexington Avenue intersection and taking a right. That’s their decision, not mine, in conjunction with the lead advance agent.

Q.  But I would assume if you thought that was an inappropriate decision you could checkmate that or at least raise it for discussion, could you not?

A.  Well, the motorcade has to make turns and slow down at some point, so that was in their opinion the best. I wouldn’t make a change on that, no. {p.1-38}

Q.  And that return route carried the motorcade right up into the intersection where most of the cars carrying the 5 to 6,000 expected persons had turned and gone down to park near that college; is that correct?

A.  When you say the return route, you mean the route downtown to the Sheraton?

Q.  Yes, the return route to the Sheraton?

Mr. Barton:  I’m sorry, I don’t understand. He didn’t return —

A.  He never came from the Sheraton, he came from the airport?

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  No, I understand, when he left Doolittle Hanger —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — the motorcade went through that intersection, which was the very intersection where most of the cars had traveled and people had parked and walked?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  And would you be surprised to learn that there were at least two entranceways back onto Airport Boulevard that would be to the right of this diagram that would avoid going through that intersection completely?

A.  I don’t know. I don’t know about the other entrances to the airport, I was just concerned about the area around Doolittle Hanger.

The motorcade advance agent would pick out the {p.1-39} routes, I was concerned about my site, which is Doolittle Hanger, and the surrounding area.

So, yeah, there could have been — I’m sure there are more gates to the airport, but I don’t know where they were. When the motorcade advance person tells me the route, I base where my security drops off and where his picks up, his or hers picks up at that point.

Q.  Well, you don’t disagree that there are two entranceways onto Airport Boulevard —

A.  I don’t know. I don’t know.

Q.  — that would avoid that —

A.  I don’t know.

Q.  — intersection? You didn’t consider that part of your responsibilities as the advance team leader?

A.  No, because that would have been on the — I wasn’t the advance team leader, I was the site person, and the motorcade advance agent would have picked that out.

And also it takes into account police posting and manpower, not just where we can slow down — you know, if it’s manpower efficient to go a certain way, they do it that way as well, as long as we can still secure the route.

Q.  And do you know Secret Service Agent Dolan?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Who is that, sir?

A.  He — he, I believe, was the motorcade advance agent on {p.1-40} this trip from the president’s detail.

Q.  From what?

A.  Presidential protective division.

Q.  And Agent Dolan is based in South Carolina, is he not?

A.  No, he’s not.

Q.  Where is he the special — where is he assigned?

A.  Oh, I’m sorry, Neal Dolan —

Q.  Neal Dolan.

A.  Neal Dolan was not the motorcade advance agent, he’s the special agent in charge here in the office.

Q.  And he was on site and in charge of security that day?

A.  No.

Q.  The security plan?

A.  No, that’s not really how it works. I would have been in charge of the security at that site. The special agent in charge has a vested interest because it is his district, but they provide the — our counterparts from the field office, and also approve the manpower requests that goes to investigation to send forth the post standers. The security plan comes from the president’s detail.

Q.  Just one moment.

If Agent Dolan testified before Federal Judge Matthew Perry on May the 8th and was asked this question —

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, this is clearly pitting one witness against another. He’s got Agent Dolan under subpoena, {p.1-41} that’s a proper question for Agent Dolan, not as to what Agent Dolan’s testimony was.

Mr. Pitts:  I’m trying to see if I can refresh his recollection about who was in charge of security, Judge.

The Court:  Well, he doesn’t need his recollection refreshed, he’s already testified that he was in charge.

Mr. Pitts:  But there’s a separate agent who has testified under oath —

The Court:  That’s the testimony. Now, if you have got Agent Dolan under subpoena and you put him on the stand, you can see if he testifies to something different. But he’s already —

Your testimony is you were in charge, isn’t that correct?

The Witness:  I’m in charge of this site, being the agent from the president’s detail. While he is a special agent in charge of this district, of the Columbia, South Carolina district, he has a concern, obviously, about all the security arrangements that the president detail has made. But the actual person in charge of this site was me.

The Court:  He doesn’t need his —

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  So, if he was asked if he was in charge of the security zone and he said yes, that would be incorrect?

A.  He has an interest — {p.1-42}

Mr. Barton:  The same objection, Your Honor, this is not the question —

The Court:  That’s the same — you can ask Agent Dolan that.

Mr. Pitts:  All right, Your Honor.

The Witness:  He might feel that way on his own as well. But as far as from the president’s detail, I was in charge. And my boss — my boss is not Neal Dolan.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  All right. Would you explain to me what a post stander is?

A.  A post stander is an agent, a special agent that we bring in based on the security needs of the site agent, as far as — he’s given instructions on how —

The Court:  That’s a post stander?

The Witness:  Post stander, yes.

The Court:  All right.

A.  It’s basically — it’s an agent that we give instructions to, what he’s supposed to do at this — at his spot at the venue, with his area of responsibility, to insure that the venue stays secure.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  And how many post standers were established for the president’s visit October 24th?

A.  We don’t like to talk about specific numbers, but I would say that we imported for the entire visit between 50 and 100. {p.1-43}

Q.  If there were post stander documents numbered 210 or 211, would that mean there were 211?

A.  Not necessarily.

Q.  How would that work, would some officers have dual posts?

A.  Some would have dual posts. And just because a series number starts with 200 doesn’t mean there’s 200 people there, it’s just an arbitrary number given a site. Meaning, the first site could be the 100 series, the next site the 200 series.

Q.  I see. And so are all of those people assigned to those duties federal people?

A.  As a post stander, yes.

Q.  Would they all be Secret Service, or could be other federal officials?

A.  On this visit they were all Secret Service.

Q.  Okay.

A.  During the campaign sometimes we have to use other employees, customs agents — customs or IRS agents, other agents.

Q.  And as a standard operating procedure, is it the policy that the secured area for presidential visits is in some way demarked with barricades, sometimes it’s bicycle racks, sometimes it’s tractor trailer trucks, barrels — is that true as a general policy?

A.  No, I think every site is looked at differently and sometimes you might have bike racks, sometimes you might have {p.1-44} people standing there to demark your area.

Q.  And was there any plan ever to have bicycle racks at this event at the hanger, Doolittle Hanger?

A.  I did have bicycle racks at this hanger.

Q.  You did have?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And would you indicate where those were on the diagram?

A.  Sure. It was on the Tarmac between the metal detector area and around to the bottom left corner of the building on this diagram.

The Court:  Around the front of the building, southern side?

The Witness:  If you will call the Tarmac the front, yes.

The Court:  All right.

The Witness:  It’s around the open bay — bay doors for the hanger.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Thank you. Were there any bicycle racks to the — as we look at the chart to the left of the hanger?

A.  I don’t recall any there. I didn’t request them to be there.

Q.  And in fact I believe you testified earlier that there is a wire fence, screen mesh fence that goes — that runs to the left of the hanger? {p.1-45}

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Would you take the marker and indicate where that fence exists?

A.  It’s actually drawn on here. There’s one here and there’s another one that comes here actually as well.

Q.  So, there are two fences that preexisted October 24th that were there on October 24th that would have served as barriers for anybody without authorization to come into the Tarmac area; is that correct?

A.  Yes, correct.

Q.  And on the other side of the hanger where there was not such a fence, that’s where you put the bike racks?

A.  Yes, on this side of the hanger were the bike racks.

Q.  Okay. Thank you, you can return to your seat.

And the Secret Service policy manual, et cetera, divides the area into two categories, is that not correct, the secure area, and where I think your manual has called the general public area; is that correct?

A.  I believe so.

Q.  And if a person is not in the secure area, then they are allowed to walk and exist consistent with the local police and ordinances and local laws; is that correct?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  How about people who are in the general public area who want to engage in political expression, carry a sign, for {p.1-46} example? Is that okay by the Secret Service?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And do you know of any incidents where Secret Service agents have directed local authorities to arrest or remove people who are in a general public area who are attempting to express First Amendment rights?

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I’m going to object to that for a couple of reasons. It has nothing to do with this case. If he wants to stop right here, that’s fine, if that’s sufficient, I can —

The Court:  Well, you can ask the witness if he knows whether that event happened here at this particular event.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Do you know if that happened on October 24th?

A.  What specifically? If one of our agents told someone — please repeat it, I’m sorry.

Q.  If the Secret Service agent — I asked if you knew of any incidents — and the judge has said refine that to be on October 24th right now — where Secret Service agents have instructed local police to arrest or remove someone for exercising their First Amendment rights?

The Court:  In the general public area?

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  In the general public area?

A.  No. {p.1-47}

The Court:  Show us where the general public area was on this map.

The Witness:  Well, the general public area — this is all still restricted area. The general public area would have been beyond, about 100 yards up, like I told you earlier, up Lexington Avenue, to the next intersection down on the left of the map, to 302, and also around Doolittle Hanger to the edge of the bike rack, which technically really isn’t public because it’s inside of an airport Tarmac, and around basically the whole side of this — left side of this diagram.

The Court:  Well, that whole side of that diagram was in the posted area?

The Witness:  Yeah, I would say up to about — we had — this is Eagle Aviation on the left side of this diagram.

The Court:  Right.

The Witness:  Up to about Eagle Aviation, is where we kept this. Of course, this was Tarmac, so it is already restricted access anyway.

The Court:  Right.

The Witness:  So, what we are really talking about, as far as everything from the next intersection down —

The Court:  Anything to the left of that intersection?

The Witness:  Everything down to 302 — I’m sorry, 302 this way, to the right of the diagram, to the next {p.1-48} intersection this way, which I don’t know the name of this street, and up to the 100 yards past the intersection of Lexington and Airport Boulevard.

The Court:  North?

The Witness:  North.

The Court:  What about west?

The Witness:  To the next intersection down here, which I can’t recall the name of that street.

The Court:  So that was a restricted area?

The Witness:  Restricted area.

The Court:  From that intersection left, to the next intersection?

The Witness:  Correct.

The Court:  Okay.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Which was about — would you give an estimate in terms of how far that was?

A.  No, I don’t know. I don’t know.

Q.  Do you remember the name of that street being called Lester Bates?

A.  I don’t recall. I just remember looking at that and said that would be a good spot for the edge of it.

Q.  Can you remember if it was about an equal distance down to Lester Bates, or the other — the ending point, as there was to 302 on the other side? {p.1-49}

A.  It may have been a little closer, but I don’t know.

Q.  Now, I believe you told the judge that was a restricted area, but it wasn’t a restricted area except for a certain time frame, correct?

A.  No, it’s all a restricted area, from the time we put up our perimeter, but we allowed — to allow airport commerce, we let some people go through.

Q.  So, when did you put up your perimeter?

A.  7:30 in the morning.

Q.  So, from 7:30 that morning until the president had departed, that entire area that you have described was deemed to be a secure area?

A.  A restricted area, yes. But we do allow some people to pass through that area.

Q.  About 4,000 that day, correct?

A.  Yeah, they were invited guests authorized to be there, and also people that had business down Airport Boulevard. We — just to avoid affecting commerce, we have to facilitate that.

Q.  So, help me again with the idea of you restricted it starting at 7:30, but then it was open at some point, and then it closed at some point?

A.  It was restricted from 7:30 in the morning until the president left Doolittle Hanger. But during that — the restrictions doesn’t mean people can’t pass through our secure area or our restricted area. {p.1-50}

Q.  And who is making the discretionary decision about who can go in that area and who can’t go in that area? Is there one individual that is making that discretionary call?

A.  Well, there’s probably many, actually, police officers — “Do you have a ticket for this event? Go park there. If you are going to the airport, go ahead up here —”

Q.  So, the lifting —

A.  “If you are going to school, go that way.”

Q.  So, the lifting or dropping of the secure area is not limited to Secret Service personnel?

A.  No, that’s still — that’s not lifting or dropping it. When we — if we really — it’s not lifting it. It’s still a restricted area.

If you have business in there, you can pass through that area, until, of course the president is on imminent arrival. Then we shut it all down for no traffic at all, which only inconveniences businesses in the airport, at the airport, and down Airport Boulevard for a short period of time.

Q.  But my question is, who has the authority to exercise the discretion to decide who has business within there such that they are allowed to go within that very largely restricted area? Is it limited to just Secret Service agents?

A.  No, we instructed the police also if they — if somebody had to pass through our restricted area, they could do it.

If they had business at the airport, or if they said {p.1-51} they had business at the airport, and didn’t otherwise — if they didn’t otherwise display some action that would say they didn’t have business at the airport.

For example, if someone said, “I’m going to the airport and set up a picnic out here,” they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay. But if they went to the airport, they were allowed to go.

Q.  And were there — was there a written diagram with this secure area marked on it as part of all of this preparation you have described to the court?

A.  Not the entire area, no.

Q.  So, there never was a drawing to indicate to any of the authorities that were assisting you where the secure area began and where it ended; is that correct?

A.  That’s correct. We were out there all week and we walked every inch of it. So, it was pretty defined. And then when the police show up with — I have a police counterpart that works with me, and when they come out, I tell them, “There should be a guy here and this is his responsibility,” and we talk about it.

And then at 7 in the morning on the day of the visit, my police counterpart takes his police assets and posts them based on what we talked about and gives them their verbal instructions.

Q.  Was there ever any written criteria, written criteria {p.1-52} issued to SLED, the Lexington County Sheriff’s Department, or Airport Metropolitan Police to instruct them on how to determine who could legitimately go within this area that was restricted starting at 7:30 a.m.?

A.  Not to my knowledge. I didn’t author anything like that.

Q.  Was there ever a meeting that you were present at where every officer from the various agencies I have just described came together to discuss the plans for that day?

A.  Not that I was present at. When they all show up at 7 o’clock and are posted by the police, I’m busy posting the post standers at the same time.

The Secret Service doesn’t go around posting police because they have their own command, they do it. And we discuss our security plans together.

Q.  But it’s the Secret Service that made the decision on what was secure, not local and state authorities, correct?

A.  In conjunction with them we do it, yes. We, in conjunction with the police, define our restricted area.

Q.  Now —

A.  We obviously have to facilitate — we can’t shut the airport down from 7 in the morning until noon, so we have to facilitate some means for regular commerce in this scenario.

I mean, there are some venues we can go to and completely shut it down because we own the whole thing and there is no other way — we are not going to intrude on {p.1-53} anyone’s commerce.

Here, obviously, we have to allow people to go through. So, we facilitate that, and at the last possible moment shut everything down to all movement and create a sterile — completely sterile environment around our arrival and motorcade routes. And then when we can lift that to a less restriction, we do.

Q.  So, am I hearing you say that if somebody turned off of Highway 302 on to Airport Boulevard at 8 o’clock that morning who wanted to stand on the right-of-way of the highway with a protest sign but didn’t have any other commercial goal, they would be deemed to be within a restricted area?

A.  It wouldn’t matter what they had, they were in a restricted area and had to move on.

Q.  Well, but you just told me if they had a commercial interest business —

A.  If they had a commercial interest on the road, they wouldn’t have been allowed there. As a matter of fact, we did shut down a construction site that was there that day.

They were the ones who let us use their heavy equipment on the parkway between the hanger and the airport. They weren’t going to need them because we asked them not to work that day.

So, yeah, any commercial interest that was going to be on the parkway by Airport Boulevard was not going to be {p.1-54} allowed to be there that day, but if they wanted to pass through our zone we would allow that.

Q.  Now, do you have any written criteria by which you — and standards by which you can determine, or did determine, that a commercially interested vehicle or person who would be allowed to pass through starting even during the secure zone in effect at 7:30, would not be deemed a security risk to the president?

A.  No.

Q.  So, that was pretty much a guess, because they were doing commerce they wouldn’t be a threat to the president?

A.  They could have billboards on trucks going up and down with whatever they wanted to say on them all day long as far as I cared, as long as they didn’t stop.

Q.  They could have bombs in those same trucks too, couldn’t they?

A.  Which would be a horrible thing, however the president wasn’t there. So, it wouldn’t have been, from my standpoint, aside from my own personal safety, the personal safety of my colleagues and all the public that was there that would be injured by the bomb, my job is to protect the president who wasn’t there.

Q.  And the president wasn’t there at 7:30, but the president also wasn’t there at 8 o’clock when I gave you the hypothetical about the person who wanted to stand on the side of the road of Airport Boulevard with a sign. {p.1-55}

A.  Right, the problem —

Q.  So, that person wouldn’t be a threat to the president either, would he?

A.  I don’t — I don’t know that he would be a threat or not.

Q.  Well, is the criteria whether or not the president is there or not there?

A.  Yeah, if you remain there when the president arrives, in that sterile area, we don’t know if he’s a threat or not. So, we prefer to have people go through the area so we don’t have to deal with them right before the president’s arrival as far as trying to remove somebody if they don’t want to leave.

So, we allow — we set up our secure or restricted area so that people can pass through that have commerce, but not stay during that time.

Q.  But those very people who pass through with commerce could be a threat and a danger, right?

A.  They could be. But as long as they keep going, they are not. If they stay there, then they present a danger when the president arrives. If they pass through, they don’t present a danger when the president arrives.

Q.  So, let me just be sure I understand your testimony. Let’s say there are two vehicles coming down Highway 302, both of them turn and take a right on Airport Boulevard heading towards the airport, and it’s 8 o’clock a.m. that morning. The first vehicle is a commercial vehicle of some sort, you can tell by {p.1-56} the markings on it.

A.  All right.

Q.  The vehicle behind it is a standard automobile with four people with peace bumper stickers on it. The vehicle, the first one, the commercial vehicle, is allowed to drive through?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  And — but the vehicle with the four people with the peace bumper sticker that pulled over to the public right-of-way and stopped and got out and produced peace signs, they would not be allowed to stay there? They would be told to leave?

A.  That’s correct. And neither would the vehicle with commercial interests on it be able to stop there. If the four people in the car drove through, that’s fine, but they can’t stop and stay in our restricted area.

Q.  Now —

A.  That same — we would treat the commerce vehicle, the plumbing truck, or whatever have you, in front of that car the same way if they tried to stop there.

Q.  On October —

A.  You are saying two different things when you give that example.

Q.  On October 24th, was there a post stander posted at that intersection of 302 and Airport Boulevard that stopped every vehicle that turned in?

A.  That turned in where? {p.1-57}

Q.  That turned off of 302 onto Airport Boulevard heading toward Doolittle Hanger?

A.  At 302 and Airport Boulevard, no, there was not. There was a police officer there.

Q.  There was a police officer?

A.  (Nods head in the affirmative).

Q.  Did the police officer stop every vehicle?

A.  I don’t think so.

Q.  And in fact hundreds, or at least enough vehicles to transport over 4,000 people, were allowed to turn down that highway, correct?

A.  Correct. I believe they were screened at a later point and asked where they were going and their intent.

Q.  And whatever they said was taken at face value?

A.  Unless they — yes, it was taken at face value unless they indicated some other actions that would say they weren’t going to do what they say.

For example, if they said they were going to the airport and set up a picnic, like I said before, right there on the hanger ground, that’s not going to the airport for commerce.

Q.  Now, I believe you testified previously that when you first saw Secret Service Agent Able speaking to someone, it was in the grassy knoll area there near the intersection of Airport and Lexington on the hanger side of Airport? {p.1-58}

A.  That general vicinity, yes.

Q.  And I believe you also testified at that point that the area was not closed at that point, correct?

A.  It was a restricted area at that point, yes. It was a restricted area, but closed to — closed to every unknown unauthorized individual? Not at that point.

Q.  It was restricted but not closed? Am I hearing you right on that?

A.  When I say “closed,” I mean sterile area right before the president arrives, correct. It was restricted from 7:30 on.

Q.  And “restricted” means you can’t be in there unless you are an invitee?

A.  You can’t remain there unless you are an invitee or authorized — “authorized” meaning law enforcement, communications folks, staff, people that had to work at the hanger.

Q.  So, there’s a difference in restricted and closed?

A.  There is a difference between the level of restriction we are implementing at that time. We have to allow commerce, we can’t just shut down everything for —

Q.  Isn’t that an argument for maybe being a little more precise on when you describe an area to be secured and restricted so that —

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor —

Mr. Pitts:  I would like to finish my question. {p.1-59}

Mr. Barton:  I will ask — it’s clearly argumentative. He started it off by making an argumentative statement.

Mr. Pitts:  I will withdraw it. Maybe it was my tone of voice, Your Honor.

Mr. Barton:  It wasn’t the tone of voice —

Mr. Pitts:  I will start over.

Mr. Barton:  — it was a statement.

The Court:  He’s just trying to establish at what point a restricted area becomes a closed area, I presume; is that correct?

Mr. Pitts:  Still trying to find that out, yes, sir.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Well, let me ask you, as part of your training as a Secret Service Agent and reading the manual, are you — have you been instructed in the importance of protecting and not chilling citizens’ rights to free speech and to in fact be present at such events with the president in order to protest or demonstrate?

A.  I don’t know the verbiage of our manual. We are told not to interfere with First Amendment rights.

Q.  And an important aspect of not interfering with First Amendment rights would be to narrowly and precisely limit the area to be secured and the time it’s to be secured, wouldn’t it? {p.1-60}

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I’m going to object again. This isn’t a question for him. That might be a question for Your Honor, but that is not a question for this witness.

The Court:  Well, he can ask him what is the Secret Service — assuming they have instructions in that area — what those instructions are with respect to dealing with demonstrators who want to demonstrate, exercise their First Amendment right. Does the Secret Service have a policy of how to deal with them, what is the policy, how are demonstrators dealt with on this day, all those —

Mr. Barton:  That was not that question.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Well, Agent Cohen, does the Secret Service have a policy that gives you guidance on how to balance protection of the president with protection of First Amendment rights?

A.  We are instructed to —

Q.  My question is, do you have a policy? Is there a Secret Service policy?

A.  I’m not familiar with that policy. We may or may not.

Q.  All right. The decision to deem restricted, but not closed, 302 at Airport Boulevard and the other end of Airport Boulevard at some distance you are not sure — at the next intersection down there — was that decision yours?

A.  I think in conjunction with the police.

Q.  In conjunction with the police? {p.1-61}

A.  (Nods head in the affirmative).

Q.  What police?

A.  The — I believe that’s county jurisdiction there, so whoever at that point was going to use their assets off their — probably in conjunction with all the police because of the motorcade.

Q.  But given the maxim the buck stops somewhere, is it fair to say that the buck stops with you as the Secret Service Agent rather than the local police who don’t have the responsibility that — it’s similar to yours, they do have a duty to protect the president — but is it fair to say that that was your decision?

A.  Yes, you can say that.

Q.  Now, was your decision to proceed that way screened or reviewed by any of your supervisors?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Who was that?

A.  I don’t recall the — the day before the visit we have what is called the second supervisor come out from D.C. to review our security plan. I don’t recall — he’s also known as the ASAIC, assistant special agent in charge. I don’t remember which ASAIC came out on that visit.

Q.  Is that ASAIC part of the intelligence division that you were discussing, or is that part of the —

A.  No, he’s part — {p.1-62}

Q.  — PPD, presidential protection division?

A.  Part of the PPD.

Q.  But came out of Washington?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And that would have been on October 23rd?

A.  It most likely was the 23rd, but it could have been earlier.

Q.  But you know it happened?

A.  I know it happened.

Q.  And you explained to this person, who’s name you can’t remember, the area that you described to us, its full breadth, and the time in which you planned to implement it?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And he or she gave their stamp of approval to that?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And during that meeting, was there any discussion about whether or not the breadth and scope of that area, and the time which it was to be implemented, was too broad and too sweeping and too vague in light of countervailing and balancing First Amendment rights for people to participate in that area and engage in free speech rights?

A.  I don’t recall any verbiage like that being used in our conversation.

Q.  Okay. That’s twice you used that word. So, you consider balancing the First Amendment aspects in these matters {p.1-63} verbiage?

A.  No, your verbiage. That’s what I meant by that. As part —

Q.  Was there anything that is different from the way I’m saying it, but got to the essence of, did you all discuss in that meeting with your supervisor from Washington —

A.  No, he was —

Q.  — that this area might be too broad, in light of the need to protect and not chill First Amendment rights? Was there any such discussion during that meeting?

A.  No.

Q.  Okay. Just one minute.

Agent Cohen —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — where were tickets checked on October 24th to see if people had their tickets?

A.  I believe they were checked at two different points. The only point that I concerned myself with was prior to the metal detectors. There — I believe the police and a staff volunteer checked them additionally when they were coming by the intersection of Lexington and Airport Boulevard, but they were actually taken right prior to the metal detectors.

Q.  And the metal detectors you are describing there on the chart, the government —

A.  To the right of that, to the right of Doolittle Hanger. {p.1-64}

Q.  To the right of Doolittle Hanger. And then you think there was another spot?

A.  I’m certain of it.

Q.  Where was it?

A.  Somewhere in the vicinity of Airport Boulevard and Lexington, but I don’t know exactly where.

Q.  Well, wouldn’t that be an essential aspect of the security plan to know where the tickets were checked?

A.  No, because that is a staff concern. From a Secret Service standpoint, as long as people get screened to come into a venue, they are, in my opinion, secure.

But the staff invites people to come to venues and it’s their job to control who they invite and who they allow in.

So, as long as they were being checked at some point by staff to insure that they didn’t get people inside that they didn’t want there, then I don’t really concern myself with it. I consider it the general public anyway.

Q.  I’m sorry, you consider what —

A.  I consider the invited people there as general public, because I don’t know them. They are not known to the Secret Service, especially in this scenario, 6,000 people. So, we consider them general public.

Now, the staff is the person who issues tickets, and tickets to people, and they are the ones who take tickets. We {p.1-65} don’t involve ourselves in that.

Q.  So, isn’t it correct that there was publicity for this event and it was advertised as a public event; is that correct?

A.  I don’t know how they advertised it.

Q.  Well, what do you know — don’t you know this event to be a public event where people were invited to come see the president?

A.  It was a ticketed event, which I consider public, because the tickets go out to people that are unknown to me. So, I don’t know how it was advertised or how the tickets were given — given out, other than they were distributed by staff.

Q.  And when you use the word “staff,” who are you talking about, staff?

A.  I mean the president’s staff.

Q.  The what?

A.  The president’s staff. The people that are here from the advance side of the house for the president’s detail, staff people on the president’s side.

Q.  So, when you were describing a few moments ago that the other ticket check area, that you are not sure where it was, but it was people who were the president’s staff doing that ticket checking?

A.  The staff folks come out and do an advance just like we do. And we talk to them about what the president is going to do. They get volunteers to take tickets, to check tickets along the {p.1-66} route, to point people the right direction to go, to point people to parking, so forth. So, it would have been a staff volunteer certainly, volunteering for staff advance people, that would have been concerning themselves with taking those tickets.

Q.  So, the other ticket check spot was not — excuse the sexist connotation — was not manned by police officers or law enforcement officials, but it was staffed by volunteers connected to the president; is that correct?

A.  There were police in the vicinity, but they weren’t taking tickets. Police and Secret Service don’t involve themselves in the collection of tickets for a venue.

Q.  Well, but I’m not talking about whether they took them, I’m talking about whether or not they were being checked or screened —

A.  They were being checked in the vicinity of police officers, but not by the police officers, more likely by staff. The folks — the police were probably asking at that point, “If you are going to the venue, to the park for the event, this way. If you are going to the airport, this way,” you know, pointing them in the correct direction for them to go.

Q.  So, as part of your preparation and planning for this, who was your contact person with presidential staff?

A.  I don’t know, I would have to go back and check. I don’t know. {p.1-67}

Q.  Was it a person out of Washington?

A.  At this site I couldn’t tell you. Sometimes they come from Washington, sometimes they are locally. But you have to — this is 13 months ago and I have done a large number of sites since then. I tend to try to purge the information when I get a new one, you know. I can’t remember who it was.

Q.  Well, I understand you need flexibility, but there’s not a policy on how these things are carried out with regard to something as fundamental as who is screening tickets?

A.  The staff and staff volunteers screen tickets.

Q.  And do you know what kind of training any of these volunteers have?

A.  I don’t.

Q.  They are not — it’s safe to say they are not trained by Secret Service, are they?

A.  We don’t — yeah, we don’t train them.

Q.  All right.

A.  But I would add that if someone came in line and was invited to the event but didn’t have a ticket, the staff would probably facilitate getting that person a ticket, if they were invited, at that point.

Q.  Well, how did one get invited to this?

A.  I don’t know. The staff — I don’t invite people to presidential events, I just secure the event that the president goes to. {p.1-68}

Q.  So, if you came down into that area, let’s say the intersection of Airport and Lexington Boulevard, and you didn’t have a ticket, your understanding from other events is staff would facilitate obtaining a ticket for somebody; is that correct?

A.  If they were invited.

Q.  Well, if the general public at large was invited through telecommunications means, and they were there and knew to come, it’s your testimony that somebody from the White House staff or volunteers would facilitate getting them a ticket, if they came into that area?

A.  Other than the fact that they would want to control the numbers, which is typically why a general event, a general public event would be ticketed, is to control the amount of people.

Obviously Doolittle Hanger, the maximum capacity would be 4 or 5 or 6,000. If 20,000 people showed up, it would be a problem. That’s why I believe they would ticket this type of event, even if it was general public and not invited. But I believe this was for invited people.

Q.  And did you do field notes writing up this event after the fact?

A.  No.

Q.  That’s not standard procedure for Secret Service to write up the event that takes place at each presidential visit in {p.1-69} which you do security?

A.  The site agent, no.

Q.  I’m sorry?

A.  Not the site agent.

Q.  How about an event where someone is arrested?

A.  Not the site agent.

Q.  You don’t, then who does?

A.  The intelligence advance would monitor that case and write up reports on it.

Q.  And who was in charge of intelligence advance in this — for this event, October 24th, 2002?

A.  Agent Rhodes out of intelligence division.

Q.  Now, isn’t it true that part of the post stander policy is to have drawings or diagrams that indicate where each person is to go?

A.  Post stander policy — I’m not aware of a post stander policy like that.

Q.  Well, in the events that you cover and do security for, and are aware of the post stander assignments with numbers and directions, isn’t that accompanied with a map or a diagram?

A.  We typically do a drawing of the actual building itself, which would put the posts on it. But I don’t think there’s a policy in that. There are occasions when we can’t do that and it’s not a violation of policy not to do that. It’s more of a convenience for our post standers to know where they are in the {p.1-70} big picture.

Q.  Well, isn’t it fair to say that given the importance of presidential security, that in order to insure that the verbal printed post stander directions are not misunderstood or fumbled on that day, that there are diagrams that go along to facilitate the agent to know where to go and when to move; isn’t that true?

A.  Most of the time we do do diagrams.

Q.  Was there a diagram for this one?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Do you have that, sir?

A.  Not — not here.

Q.  And it had numbers on it, like if you had a post stander number like 211, would 211 be marked on that diagram?

A.  On the diagram I give the post standers, yes.

Mr. Pitts:  Your Honor, I would like to inquire if Mr. Barton has that diagram.

The Court:  Do you know anything about a diagram, Mr. Barton?

Mr. Barton:  Yes, sir, Your Honor, it was with the — as I understand his testimony, he did a diagram of the Doolittle Hanger —

The Witness:  That’s correct.

Mr. Barton:  — is that correct?

That was part of the materials Your Honor reviewed, I {p.1-71} believe that was part of the materials that the Secret Service requested not be disclosed. It was a drawing of the Doolittle Hanger. I will be happy to show it to you in camera, if you remember —

The Court:  I recall that diagram, yes.

Mr. Barton:  That was not disclosed in discovery. Because it involved only the Doolittle Hanger, as I understand — looking at it, it only involved the Doolittle Hanger, not the area —

The Court:  It was a diagram of just the Doolittle Hanger.

Mr. Barton:  That’s correct. Correct.

The Court:  And there was the concern about the one secure room, correct?

Mr. Barton:  There were a number of concerns.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Well, was there a diagram that related to the perimeter and boundaries of the secure area?

A.  No, just right where I had my agents posted up in and around the close-in area of the Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  And that’s because it’s the area around the Doolittle Hanger that was the secure area?

A.  No.

Q.  Isn’t that true?

A.  No, it’s not, actually. The — we went over with the {p.1-72} police verbally the entire restricted area, and I don’t need to — I didn’t need to draw a map for him when I was standing on the spot saying, “We need a guy here to do this,” and he agrees with me and we discussed what his responsibilities are.

Q.  Well, when you were describing that secure area down Lexington Avenue, what was — how was it demarked?

Verbally tell me what that was. I need to know — I’m a Lexington County Sheriff’s Officer and I need to know where the secure area begins and where it ends, and how do I know going north on Lexington Boulevard?

A.  There should be no — I would say to that officer that there should be no individuals staying here for the duration of our posting to the time of his departure, between this mark and Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  This mark? How does anybody know what “this mark” is?

A.  He’s standing on it. This mark, right here. He gets walked around by his police superior and posted there. And said, “This is your post and these are your instructions,” very similar to the way I did it inside. Doolittle Hanger was —

Q.  So, is it your testimony that starting at 7:30 that morning that some police officer, not Secret Service, but some local and state police officer was walked to some point up Lexington Boulevard and was told to stay there and keep that area secure from that point on? Is that what you are testifying to?

A.  In summary that’s what — yes. Now, whether that same {p.1-73} officer stayed there the whole time, I don’t know.

Q.  I understand.

A.  But somebody — some police officer stayed there the whole time with those same instructions at that same spot.

Q.  And that’s the same police officer that you told me earlier did not have any written criteria standard by which they could determine whether to let somebody go through or tell them to go back?

A.  I wouldn’t think it would be needed to be written when we can just verbally tell them that.

Q.  And what is that that you tell them?

A.  Tell them that if there is someone coming to the event or going to the airport, let them pass through. Or if they — if they conduct business along Airport Boulevard. But if not, then they need to be — this area needs to remain clean, sterile.

And then at some point we are going to shut this down right before arrival, completely, to all individuals, all — with the exception of known authorized individuals.

Q.  And do you know whether or not any such police officers told people to go to the demonstration area?

A.  I don’t know. I don’t know what the police officers told anybody, other than what I told them —

Q.  Was that ever part of your discussions, in your briefings, that if people were planning to protest, they were directed to {p.1-74} a certain designated spot? That was part of the plan, wasn’t it?

A.  I wasn’t told the police officers were to tell anybody to go to a demonstration area. The police — their police superior would have told them that.

When I say walk them out there, I went around with the police superior, their boss, and went around and talked about all the police postings. Then at 7 in the morning, on the day of the event, he would have been posting his police manpower while I was posting my agent manpower.

So, while the instructions are given and talked about and discussed and agreed upon by me and the police, I don’t post every police officer, because I’m busy posting my guys. So, our perimeter comes up — the police perimeter and the agent perimeter all comes up at the same time.

Q.  What time did the president arrive at — to Doolittle Hanger on October 24th?

A.  I believe at 12:05.

Q.  At 12:05?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Now, in all the prior planning that you were involved in, were you advised that Mr. Bursey was planning to attend the event in order to protest?

A.  Someone mentioned it. But that happens often, that somebody — somebody is coming — I actually, I didn’t — the {p.1-75} name — his didn’t register, I just knew there was somebody coming to demonstrate. And I didn’t know if it was going to be at my site or at the Sheraton or at the airport site, I didn’t know — someone would be out there to demonstrate.

Q.  So, did you ask any questions to find out any details about that?

A.  No, because it’s not really a concern of mine at that point. I mean, we are set up so that demonstrators can come and demonstrate in designated areas, designated by the police in this state, or in public areas in other states that don’t have laws about demonstration areas — or cities, I guess it is.

Q.  Who did you meet with from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division?

A.  Which — which police entity? I —

Q.  It’s called SLED, it’s the State Law Enforcement Division. There’s a captain — there’s a Chief Stewart, Captain Thomas —

A.  I didn’t personally meet with anybody from SLED.

Q.  And if a SLED agent had been advised that Mr. Bursey was planning to come and was asking who he needed to contact to engage in a protest, that information was not transmitted to you?

A.  I don’t know what anyone asked a SLED agent. I’m not sure —

Q.  I’m asking did any SLED agent communicate that information {p.1-76} to you?

A.  No.

Q.  Did you —

A.  Not to me. Now, there probably was communication to our intelligence advance, who at our meeting said there is someone who is going to come to one of the venues and demonstrate. Which, it’s pretty inconsequential that someone is coming to demonstrate, it happens all the time.

I have been on the detail, on the president’s detail for four and-a-half years, and I — I can’t remember but — on one hand maybe I can count the amount of times that someone didn’t come to demonstrate against President Clinton or President Bush, the time I have been on the detail.

Q.  Agent Cohen, given the breadth and scope of the secured area, and the time it was going to be restricted, it was not of interest to you where Mr. Bursey wanted to conduct his protest?

A.  I actually thought that — when we talked about the police designating Airport Boulevard and 304 as a designated area, off the parkway on the sidewalk, I thought that was actually a good spot. Because the motorcade was driving right by there, so he would be in plain view of the whole motorcade at that location.

Q.  Now, had you been involved with any of the security for President Bush’s two prior visits to South Carolina in 2002?

A.  No, I had not.

Q.  Had you been given any information that at those events Mr. {p.1-77} Bursey and others attended and refused to go to some designated demonstration area —

A.  No.

Q.  — but insisted and were allowed to be much closer in proximity to the president?

A.  I was not given that information.

Q.  But you went out and inspected the stages to make sure the stages wouldn’t collapse, didn’t you?

A.  I did not, someone from our technical security division, did.

Q.  But that’s the kind of detail you attended to, is it not?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And you are telling this court that you didn’t pay any attention to these issues about Mr. Bursey and his —

A.  I knew that a demonstrator was going to be at one of the venues during the visit while we were in South Carolina. But like I said, I didn’t concern myself with who it was or what their message is or — I knew that there was a plan in place for demonstrators, put in place by the police, agreed upon by us that it didn’t interfere with our security plan, and I was content with that.

Q.  But didn’t you know on October 24th, from your previous work on presidential protective detail, that at these kinds of events there is a conflict or disagreement over whether or not protestors are required by law to stay in some designated small {p.1-78} area, as opposed to allowed to get more in proximity of their president? You knew that — those had been in conflict at other sites, did you not?

A.  I knew that it varies from state to state and city to city based on local law. That varies —

Q.  Doesn’t it vary in state to state on what the Secret Service pronounces as where is the secured area?

A.  It varies from venue to venue where the secured area will be, based on the needs of that venue.

Q.  So, the conflict between the right to protest and where that can take place is grounded, is it not, in the decision that is made by the Secret Service and what they claim to be secure or restricted areas? That’s true, isn’t it?

A.  That’s true anywhere — yeah, that’s true.

Q.  Wasn’t that same conflict presented very starkly to you when you got information that Mr. Bursey was planning to be there, and you knew you had an area restricted that was far more than we can even see on this chart?

A.  That wasn’t a conflict because the motorcade was driving right by him, where the designated area was going to be. I thought that was an excellent area. I mean, he was going to drive right by the motorcade.

Q.  In any of the prior planning, did anybody think that maybe Mr. Bursey and others might want to not stop, as they refused to in other situations, at some spot a half a mile or a mile {p.1-79} away, and may want to go down to say the intersection of Airport Boulevard and Lexington Drive?

A.  That didn’t occur to me, but I knew that that area would be sterile for our arrival area, for arrival. I knew that we were not going to allow that in our — in our restricted area.

Q.  For arrival you said?

A.  For arrival and also —

Q.  Well, how about from 7:30 in the morning?

A.  — the beginning of our restricted area setup, our perimeter setup, we weren’t going to allow anyone to stay there.

Q.  Even though the president wasn’t there and wouldn’t be coming for three or four hours?

A.  Well, you also have to understand, if it’s one person, which in this case it was only a few people, that may have not been a problem. But if a thousand people show up there and they don’t want to leave, we can’t just move 1,000 people.

So, we set up a perimeter and our restricted area so that wherever the general public will be when we have to shut down everything for arrival, the closest we will allow any — demonstrators as well, we would allow demonstrators to be as close as the general public would be on arrival.

And if we had 1,000 people of general public that were going to attend this event in that area there, I was in the process of moving them as it was. {p.1-80}

So, whether it was a demonstrator, or people coming to the event, I wasn’t going to let them be there, or the construction area across the street, they weren’t going to be there.

So, it’s — what you are talking about is allowing too many people possibly to come into an area that it would be impossible for us to clean out prior to an arrival.

So, we set up our perimeter and our restricted zone so that when we have to shut it down for an arrival, that is as close as the public could get for security purposes.

Q.  So, is what you are telling us that if there’s three or four people in that intersection, that may not be an issue if the president has not arrived, but if there is 1,000, that would be more of a concern to Secret Service?

A.  No, it’s — all of it is a concern, because I don’t know how many people are going to show up. I don’t know that.

Q.  If you knew there was only three and it was early in the morning and the president had not arrived, would that make a difference?

A.  I have no way of knowing that. I have no way of knowing how many demonstrators are going to show up.

Q.  Well, how about in March of 2003, some five months after this event, and the federal government brought a charge against Mr. Bursey, and the evidence was very clear that there was only three or four or a handful of people there? {p.1-81}

A.  Well, that’s up to —

Q.  Did you participate in that decision to bring the charge?

A.  No, the lawyers decide that, I don’t participate —

Q.  Were you consulted?

A.  No.

Q.  Was the entire motorcade route, from the departure there to the Sheraton, was it deemed to be a secured area?

A.  It is deemed to be a secured area, yes.

Q.  So, it’s your testimony that from when the motorcade left there, that every intersection down to the Sheraton was sterilized?

A.  No, not in the same regard as they are when they are traveling this slowly, but the whole motorcade route is a secured area. Now, we ramp up security as we start to slow down.

Q.  Well, is it secured, restricted, or closed?

A.  Well, it’s closed — it’s — you can’t stop someone, if you are driving by their front lawn, from being on their front lawn.

Q.  That’s right. And why is that?

A.  It’s their front lawn.

Q.  Well, what about the public access right there that amounts to a traditional forum —

A.  Well, the motorcade —

Q.  — for exercising free speech? {p.1-82}

A.  Let me finish, please. If I — if I could — if the motorcade is driving by a front lawn at 60 miles an hour, 40 miles an hour, it’s moving rather quickly.

When we are slowing down in a situation like this, we will do things to mitigate some of the problems or vulnerabilities of a slow moving motorcade — even across from someone’s street we will do that.

We will park vehicles there so that it blocks line of sight to the arriving motorcade. But when it’s going this slow, it’s very vulnerable, and we take a high amount of concern with it.

Q.  And wouldn’t it be reasonable, in light of the need to balance presidential security with rights to free speech, to investigate and see if there wasn’t a motorcade route that was different that would avoid the slowest point in the U-turn?

Mr. Barton:  If Your Honor please, I mean, we are getting into some wild speculation. It is what it is. It was done the way it was done by the Secret Service, not — and Mr. Pitts will explore every conceivable possible —

The Court:  According to the agent’s testimony, I think, is that there is another individual who actually made the decisions about where the motorcade went. I think it’s been established for the record that there were one or two more entrances further down to the right that could have been chosen, this was the intersection that was chosen. {p.1-83}

Mr. Barton:  Yes, sir.

Mr. Pitts:  And if I could just have that one question to this witness —

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Do you not think that would be a reasonable inquiry to make in balancing the First Amendment and presidential security?

A.  That would be. I would like to add that if we went the other way, this still would have been a sterile area. Because that area is within close enough proximity to cause harm to the president. So, it really wouldn’t matter if you went out that way or a different way, it still would have been sterile.

Mr. Pitts:  Just one minute, Your Honor.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Just a bit more. Agent Cohen, how close does one have to be to be considered a threat to the president, given no other information known? Obviously if you knew the person had a firearm, that would be different.

A.  We don’t like to talk about specific distances because if people know how far away we consider it, then we would have to expand it.

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, and on that — if Your Honor would like to hear that explanation in chambers and see if it’s something that is relevant to this and there’s some way to sanitize it to give that information, but the agent is expressing — think about, that’s a fairly fundamental concern. {p.1-84}

The Court:  The agent’s testimony is that this area coming right up from the building, going up to Airport Boulevard — he testified 100 yards north, 100 yards west, and I guess all the way down to 302, they considered that secure — I think he’s testified earlier because that is an area where people could — if they had a gun or they could throw a rock or if they had gas or some kind of chemical agent, you want to keep them a certain distance away. But — and that’s his explanation for this particular diagram, about the distances they decided upon, that was the testimony.

Mr. Barton:  That’s correct.

The Court:  I don’t know if 100 yards is standard or not. And I don’t blame the agent for not wanting to actually say, “Well, this is what we always consider standard,” but —

Mr. Barton:  I would object and ask —

The Court:  His testimony for purposes of this hearing is that you went 100 yards north, 100 yards west, and to then to the east, and all the way to 302, because that’s the route the car would be going down, right?

The Witness:  That’s correct. I’m not even sure of the distance to the west, but —

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  I believe — let me see if I can clarify, because I think there was a mistake in fact —

The Court:  That’s what his earlier testimony was, I {p.1-85} think.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  The secure boundary to the west of the intersection where we are discussing is far more than 100 yards, was it not?

A.  I believe it’s more than 100 yards, but I don’t know the distance. I can’t recall.

The Court:  The one to the west went down to the next intersection —

The Witness:  Next intersection, I don’t know how far that is.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Which is probably a half a mile or more, is it not?

A.  And that’s as much for vehicular traffic as anything else. We don’t want cars coming into our site on us from that — it’s better to try to stop a vehicle from crashing through one of our perimeters at that point than it is closer. So, on the road it tends to be, especially on motorcade routes, it tends to be a little bit further.

Q.  But my question is, the boundary that you are describing that was implemented for the secure area, starting at 7:30 that morning, a.m., was the first intersection down that way, and that was, to your recollection, far more than 100 yards, was it not?

A.  That was more than 100 yards, I believe.

Q.  And it was whatever the objective reality out there is, the {p.1-86} next intersection, known as Lester Bates Drive or Boulevard —

What is it, John, is it Boulevard?

Mr. Barton:  It’s Lester Bates — something.

Mr. Pitts:  And could then, Your Honor, we let the record reflect, or take judicial notice, we determine that some independent way —

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  But it’s far more than 100 yards?

A.  I don’t know the distance.

Mr. Pitts:  All right, I don’t have any other questions.

The Court:  Redirect.

Mr. Barton:  Briefly.

Redirect Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Agent Cohen, I want to show you what has been marked as Government’s Exhibits 7, 8, and ask you if you recognize these?

A.  Yes, I do.

Q.  What are those?

A.  These are our policies from our manual regarding demonstrations.

Mr. Barton:  I move to admit those I believe without objection.

The Court:  Any objection?

Mr. Pitts:  No objection. {p.1-87}

The Court:  Government’s Exhibits — what?

Mr. Barton:  7 and 8, Your Honor.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Now, Agent Cohen, you testified that the staff members, White House staff, or someone volunteers for taking up the tickets; is that correct?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  And they are not trained by the Secret Service; is that correct?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And the person who has a ticket to an event such as this, does that mean that they are automatically going to be allowed into the Doolittle Hanger?

A.  No.

Q.  What is the next step the person who is given this ticket by the staff member has to do?

A.  They need to be screened by Secret Service.

Q.  And what does that screening entail?

A.  It entails a metal detector and a baggage check very similar to that at an airport.

Q.  The police officer who is assigned down Lexington Avenue at the perimeters of the restricted area —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — if — are they instructed who to contact if an issue arises with them as to whether or not a person’s behavior is {p.1-88} appropriate, whether or not they are authorized, whether or not they are doing something that might be a security issue, are they instructed who to contact?

A.  Typically, yes. And there is a police officer within, usually, visual sight of the staff people. They can just —

Q.  I’m sorry, you didn’t understand. The police officer who is located 100 yards down Lexington Avenue —

A.  Oh, okay.

Q.  — back at Lester Bates Boulevard, the ones manning the outer perimeter —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — or the restricted area, if an issue arises in their mind as to whether or not a person’s behavior is appropriate from a security standpoint, any issue arises —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — are they instructed who to contact?

A.  Yes, they are.

Q.  Who are they to contact?

A.  A protection intelligence team or an intelligence division team.

Q.  Someone from the Secret Service?

A.  Secret Service paired up with a local police officer.

Q.  What are those individuals instructed to do at that point?

A.  They would respond to find out what the problem is. They are not a stationary post. {p.1-89}

Q.  I think earlier you referenced the intersection of Airport Boulevard and 304, did you mean Airport Boulevard and 302?

A.  Yes, I apologize.

Mr. Barton:  That’s all I have, Your Honor.

Mr. Pitts:  Nothing further.

Examination by the Court:

Q.  Agent Cohen, let me ask, you testified you got there early in the morning?

A.  Right.

Q.  And you started setting up about 7:30?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And you had police officers, not necessarily Secret Service Agents, but police officers posted at what you considered to be the perimeter of what you wanted to be your restricted area?

A.  Yes.

Q.  So, you had somebody at the intersection of Airport Boulevard and 302?

A.  Right.

Q.  Somebody at the intersection of Airport Boulevard and Lester Bates Boulevard?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And then you had somebody up that other road at the — there’s a parking lot up there?

A.  Correct. {p.1-90}

Q.  Correct? Now, but prior to the president’s arrival, they weren’t stopping people coming in and out, were they? Like, if a car pulls off 302 onto Airport Boulevard, the officer down there is not stopping them?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  They just go on — and as long as that car doesn’t stop —

A.  That’s correct, they are allowed to go through.

Q.  So, there wasn’t anybody checking anybody prior to when the president was fixing to land at the airport; is that correct?

A.  The police may have at some point, further down the road, asked — asked people to help — it’s confusing when you pull into a venue like this, there is all kind of police around, people may not know, so —

Q.  Somebody may have themselves stopped and asked a question —

A.  Well, the traffic tends to slow down and get backed up when this many people come to this sort of event, given the amount of time that is concerned here. You know, 6,000 — or 4,000 people show up within an hour or two —

Q.  Well, the police were not stopping anybody?

A.  I don’t think they were actually stopping somebody, but I don’t know.

Q.  Now, this parking lot — you had to have a ticket to get into the event?

A.  Correct. {p.1-91}

Q.  Did you have to have a ticket to park in that parking lot?

A.  No.

Q.  So, anybody could have pulled in and parked in the parking lot?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  And then people were getting out of their cars and walking down that road right there, that I have forgotten the name of?

A.  Lexington.

Q.  Is that right?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Are there sidewalks on that road?

A.  I don’t think so. It was under construction.

Q.  So, people are pulling in and parking in that parking lot and they are walking down to this area near where this fence is by Doolittle Hanger, correct?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And people started arriving — what time, early in the morning?

A.  9 or 9:30.

Q.  Because people want to come out and see the president and they like to see Air Force One land and —

A.  That’s correct. Although from inside the hanger, I don’t think they could see the plane land, but —

Q.  Now, there was no way to know then initially whether everybody parked in that parking lot, walking down that street, {p.1-92} had a ticket?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And people were just coming down here and they were getting in this line — what time did y’all tell the people to start getting into a line to come through the metal detectors?

A.  Well, the tickets — the tickets — the staff — the staff printed indicate to show up at 9:30 and arrive no later than 11:15.

Q.  And then there were staff people up near that intersection, when people were coming down, they were telling them where to go to get in line?

A.  Correct. And I would add that there probably was — there probably was people in that parking lot that were affiliated with the school, the college there, that didn’t have tickets and that were allowed to go to work at the college.

Q.  All right. Or could they walk down the road to see what — they knew the president was coming, they walked down the road, curious, see what was going on?

A.  They could have walked on the road.

Q.  Right.

A.  But they wouldn’t have been allowed to stay. If they didn’t have a ticket and they had no business to be there other than to stand there —

Q.  I guess that’s my question. I mean, you weren’t checking them — as I understand your testimony, the Secret Service {p.1-93} wasn’t checking them until they got to the metal detector?

A.  Correct.

Q.  So, how did you know who up there is milling around around that intersection, whether they had a ticket or not?

A.  Well, no one was milling around, they would go right to the line. And if they didn’t go to the line, that would bring attention to them. We would assume that they are coming to the event and are ticketed, so —

Q.  If somebody walked down to that area at 9:30 in the morning and didn’t have a ticket but they were just standing around, they had to leave?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  They were told to leave?

A.  Yes.

The Court:  All right. Okay. You can step down. Thank you. Call your next witness.

Mr. Barton:  Call Randy Blackmon.

The Court:  It’s about 12, I was going to go to about 1 and break for lunch. Is that all right with everybody?

Mr. Pitts:  (Nods head in the affirmative).

The Clerk:  If you could stand, place your left hand on the Bible, and raise your right hand and state your full name for the record?

The Witness:  Randy M. Blackmon.

Randy M. Blackmon, Sworn {p.1-94}

Direct Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Please state your full name again for the court, please, sir.

A.  Randy M. Blackmon.

Q.  By whom are you employed?

A.  Richland-Lexington Airport District, or Columbia Metropolitan Airport.

Q.  In what capacity are you employed by the airport?

A.  Chief of police.

Q.  And how long have you been the chief of police of the airport?

A.  Seven years.

Q.  And did you have any law enforcement experience prior that to that?

A.  Yes, I was sheriff in Jasper County for 12 years.

Q.  Okay. Do you recall when President Bush visited Columbia on October 24th, 2002?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And were — did you attend any briefings conducted by the Secret Service concerning that visit?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Did the issue of a demonstration area come up?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Okay. And did the Secret Service at any point in time {p.1-95} direct you or tell you to establish a demonstration area?

A.  No.

Q.  Okay. Did you in fact, however, designate a demonstration area?

A.  Yes, I did.

Q.  And why was that?

A.  The airport has a code of rules or regulations, if you will. In those regulations is a regulation which requires anyone who is coming out to demonstrate, picket, or whatever, to acquire a permit from the airport before doing so.

We always designate an area for this purpose. And the main reason we do that is to try to alleviate any problems in case someone comes out, last minute, without going through the process, is the main reason we always designate an area ahead of time.

Q.  If someone comes out at the last minute, not having gone through the process, what do you tell them? What do you allow them to do?

A.  We allow them to go to the area we have designated.

Q.  Are you aware of anyone applying for a permit pursuant to these regulations to demonstrate or picket on October 24th, 2002?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  What area did you pick as the demonstration area on — for that visit? {p.1-96}

A.  The intersection of Airport Boulevard and Highway 302.

Q.  And did you discuss that with the Secret Service, where you had chosen?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Well, what was the purpose of discussing it with the Secret Service?

A.  We always — it was a collaborative discussion. I always try to pick a place as far as two things in mind, security and safety. So, the discussion is to make sure that they don’t have a problem or an issue from a security standpoint, and also if I may be — make sure I haven’t missed anything on a safety standpoint.

Q.  Okay. And the safety of whom? Who are you concerned about?

A.  The safety of the individuals who are coming out to demonstrate.

Q.  Okay. Did you have any safety issues — did the Secret Service have any security issues with that location?

A.  No.

Q.  Did you — were there any safety issues that dictated the selection of that location?

A.  There were some. We have designated that area in the past. The airport, of course, is constantly under construction, just it seems more so now than in the past. The entire — {p.1-97}

Q.  Yes, it does.

A.  — the entire route on Airport Boulevard from Highway 302 basically up to Eagle Aviation is under construction with the new John Hardy Expressway. As a matter of fact, it goes further than that, it goes all the way out to Irmo.

That entire route on both shoulders was — construction barrels lined both sides of the highway, so it was just not a safe issue, as far as on that roadway, until you get out — there was a newly built sidewalk at Airport Boulevard and 302, and that’s where we designated, was behind that sidewalk.

Q.  Are there any sidewalks on Airport Boulevard other than that newly built one from 302 to the terminal?

A.  No.

Q.  Okay.

Mr. Barton:  Excuse me a moment, Your Honor.

That’s all the questions I have, Chief Blackmon, answer any questions that defense counsel may have.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts.

Cross Examination

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Chief Blackmon, my name is Lewis Pitts and I’m representing Mr. Bursey along with Mr. Rauch Wise. Good morning.

A.  Good morning.

Q.  So, the demonstration area that you have described, did you {p.1-98} post or have any of your officers to be there to coordinate, deal with traffic, to facilitate security and safety?

A.  There were no airport police. Lexington County Sheriff’s Office was in that area.

Q.  And had you had briefings with the Lexington County Sheriff’s Department —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — officials?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And they were told that that was the demonstration area —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — is that correct?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what were — what were the plans to deal with parking and traffic in that area?

A.  Parking, my plans were to have parking across the street over in — we call it the foreign trade zone. I don’t know if you are familiar with that area, but it’s an office complex with a lot of parking spaces over there.

Q.  And was somebody there to direct traffic or advise people who wanted to participate at a demonstration area what to do and how to — how —

A.  There were people posted there, yes, sir.

Q.  And do you know the names of any of those people?

A.  I do not at this time, no, sir. {p.1-99}

Q.  Do you know what time they were posted there?

A.  I would say probably, and I’m — probably about an hour before arrival. And that’s a guesstimate.

Q.  Arrival — an hour before what arrival?

A.  Before the arrival of Bush, the president, is when we usually post different areas.

Q.  I see.

A.  And they may have been — in this case they may have been there earlier, but I’m — like I say, that’s a guess.

Q.  And did you attend any briefings where SLED agents were present to talk about security at the hanger?

A.  I did go. Yes, I did, yes.

Q.  All right. And were Secret Service agents present also at that briefing?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And were you given any diagrams or maps of what would be the secure area for president — for the president’s visit at the hanger?

A.  I don’t recall, that, no, sir. I may have, but I don’t know —

Q.  You might have?

A.  My main concern is where our airport police are standing. And in this case, I don’t recall that. I know I was at the briefing, but I can’t say that I recall getting an actual map. Because I’m pretty familiar with the area, and I don’t recall {p.1-100} that.

Q.  I’m sure you are familiar with the area — in fact, how far down to the west of Airport and Lexington is Lester Bates — is it drive or street or boulevard? I mean, how far is that from that intersection, chief?

A.  From Lexington to Lester Bates?

Q.  Yes, sir. Is it about the same distance as it is to 302? A little less?

A.  It’s probably close, close to the same.

Q.  So, a half mile or more?

A.  Probably at the most, probably a half a mile.

Q.  Okay. And —

The Court:  You are talking about from that intersection?

The Witness:  Yes.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  From that intersection. All right. And I’m not talking about necessarily a literal map, but were you given any diagrams about where your people were to be posted to help demarcate or define the boundaries for the secured area?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  Were any of your men to be — or women to be used to help demarcate that secure boundary that was selected by the Secret Service?

A.  We had one officer posted on the air side. When I say air {p.1-101} side, it would be on the ramp side of the Doolittle building.

Q.  Show me — if you don’t mind, if you would step down on Government’s Exhibit — is it 1?

A.  Yes.

It would have been back in this area.

Q.  That was your officer —

A.  I had an officer there, yes, sir. Because we only have — we are very limited on officers.

The Court:  That’s the designated area, I think, where you had your bicycle racks, sir, in front of the building?

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  If you don’t mind, Chief, put your finger there again, I’m going to try to — so, how far away from the hanger was your person on the Tarmac side of the —

A.  I’m guessing probably 50 yards maybe.

Q.  Were there any bicycle racks used as barriers that day that you remember?

A.  I think it was.

Q.  And where were they?

A.  I think they were also lined in this area.

Q.  Okay. And is that where your officer was —

A.  I was not down there, but that was where he was assigned to be, yes.

Q.  Okay. And how many other folks did you have with {p.1-102} assignments that day?

You can get back if you would like, sir.

How many other officers did you have on October 24th with assignments?

A.  Assigned to this event?

Q.  Yes, sir.

A.  I think we usually assign — usually it’s around seven to nine. Because we also have other shifts that we have to deal with, so we are pretty limited on the amount of officers that we can —

Q.  And could you tell the court what were those seven to nine officers to do?

A.  All of them?

Q.  Yes, sir.

A.  I don’t have my notes. Most of our officers would be assigned on the air side, which is around the arrival. The aircraft usually come in, parks between —

The Court:  The Tarmac area?

The Witness:  Right. I don’t know if you are aware where the terminal is, and I guess that would be to the east of the terminal toward the AFR, which is our airport fire and rescue building.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Point to us on the diagram where —

A.  Well, it’s not on that diagram. It would be further to the {p.1-103} west.

Q.  Near the Lester Bates —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — Road?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And that far down?

A.  Yes. It’s toward the main terminal.

Q.  Okay.

A.  Which would be west of that location.

Q.  Yes. And they would be posted there for what purpose?

A.  For security purposes.

Q.  And what were their instructions?

A.  Their instructions at that point is to make sure that just before the plane arrives —

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I think —

Mr. Pitts:  Well, Your Honor, he should be able to finish his answer.

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I’m objecting to the question. Now that I hear his answer, I don’t know how that cannot be hearsay.

Mr. Pitts:  I asked him what were their instructions.

The Court:  Well, he’s the one that gave him the instructions, isn’t he?

Mr. Barton:  That hasn’t been established, I don’t know. I don’t know who gave the instructions. {p.1-104}

The Court:  Are you the one — you are the chief, aren’t you?

The Witness:  Yes.

The Court:  Are you the one that gave them their instructions?

The Witness:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  It’s overruled.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Tell us what your men were instructed to do in their locations?

A.  Their instructions are to make sure when that aircraft is on the ground that no one approaches the aircraft.

Q.  All right.

A.  Pretty simple.

Q.  All right. What about other than in the Tarmac area where Air Force One was going to be, did you have officers with any other assignments?

A.  The only other assignment we may have had could have been possibly at Lester Bates and Airport — we call it Aviation — it’s before you get to Airport Boulevard.

Q.  And what did you instruct them to do there?

A.  The only places — if it’s a closed arrival, then no one is allowed to come down that road.

The Court:  Come down Lester Bates Boulevard?

The Witness:  To come down into where the fire {p.1-105} station is, where the little parking lot is there. They are not actually blocking that road, but they are blocking traffic coming into the fire station.

The Court:  Where is that?

The Witness:  It’s adjacent — it’s between — it’s to the east of the terminal. In other words, you would have the main terminal, then you would have ramp space, and then you would have the fire and rescue building.

The Court:  Still in the Tarmac area?

The Witness:  No, sir, this is just outside the Tarmac. Just outside the parking lot for the AFR building.

Mr. Pitts:  Judge, I have a diagram we might use.

Mr. Barton:  No objection, Your Honor.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Chief, let me show you what —

The Court:  It will be Defendant’s 1.

Mr. Pitts:  All right, sir.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Let me show you a diagram, if you could step down and take a look. Since you are just looking at it for the first time, I’ll give you an orientation. Here is 302.

A.  Okay.

The Court:  Y’all are going to need to speak up because you are not near a microphone.

By Mr Pitts: {p.1-106}

Q.  Highway 302, and here is I believe Airport Boulevard, that’s Doolittle Hanger. Does that seem to be a correct orientation?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  This would be the pond.

A.  Right.

Q.  This is, where I have my pen, it’s the intersection of 302 and Airport Boulevard.

A.  Right.

Q.  If you would put your finger and point to — where is that pointer? Let’s use that. If you would point so that the judge can see where Doolittle Hanger is.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts, I can’t see anything but a glare. You are going to have to lift —

Mr. Pitts:  I’m sorry, Your Honor.

The Court:  Okay.

Mr. Pitts:  Do you want me to bring it a little closer?

The Court:  That’s all right.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  If you would, again, point. Now, if you don’t mind, move west on Airport Boulevard and point out where Lester Boulevard — Lester Bates Road —

A.  Right here.

Q.  So, I have my index finger on the hanger? {p.1-107}

A.  Right.

Q.  And I have my other index finger on 302 and Airport Boulevard, and you have your pointer on Lester Bates?

A.  Lester Bates.

Q.  It’s actually a little further from the hanger to Lester Bates than it is from the hanger to 302, isn’t it?

A.  Looks about the same to me.

Q.  Now, if you don’t mind, show us where the fire house is.

A.  That’s the fire house. That’s the national weather service and that’s the fire station, which means it’s right on the Tarmac, basically.

Q.  Now, you have described you had some officers in the area below Doolittle?

A.  Right.

Q.  Guarding the plane?

A.  No.

Q.  I’m sorry?

A.  They were at the site.

Q.  Participating in?

A.  In security.

Q.  Okay. You have to speak up for the court reporter.

A.  Okay.

Q.  And then describe what your officers were doing at the fire station.

A.  Here, here we have an officer which is — the aircraft {p.1-108} usually comes in and parks and heads back out in this direction. We have an officer on this gate, which is a vehicle gate and entrance gate on the ramp.

We have one or either two officers usually on what we call the back side, which is between the terminal and the aircraft.

And then we have an officer usually out here, and then possibly one right here, which would be the roadway which goes from here back over the ramp toward Eagle Aviation, which is where the concentration of my officers are.

Q.  And simply put, what were the — what was the main goal of these officers?

A.  Security, at this site of the aircraft.

Q.  Security of the aircraft?

A.  And also the security of the arriving protected.

Q.  Did they have any other responsibilities?

A.  No, sir. Not those, no, sir.

Q.  All right. Did you have any other officers that had responsibilities on October 24th?

A.  We had — in most cases we have — we call it a roamer, which is pretty much can respond to anything that may come up.

Q.  All right.

A.  And that’s all that I can recall at this point.

Q.  Do you remember the time lines, the timing in which your officers are supposed to be dispatched to these various areas? {p.1-109}

A.  I know on the arrival area it’s usually an hour before the arrival.

Q.  So, if the president arrived at noon, then they would get there around 11?

A.  It would be around 11. Yes, it’s usually an hour, is what we usually go by.

Q.  Now, you developed your instructions for your officers in collaboration and in the briefings with the Secret Service; is that true?

A.  Most of our briefings are dealing mainly with the sheriff’s office.

Q.  Okay. And did you have any assignments, if you will, from either the sheriff’s department or Secret Service with regard to protecting any secure area for the president?

A.  Other than the individuals that was on Doolittle and the back side, and the officers that would be on the Tarmac.

Q.  Okay.

A.  That’s all I can think of.

Q.  Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Pitts:  Just one minute.

No other questions.

The Court:  Redirect.

Mr. Pitts:  Thank you, Chief.

Redirect Examination

By Mr. Barton: {p.1-110}

Q.  Briefly, Chief, in addition to your officers out there, were there other law enforcement officers out there as well?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Who were some of the other agencies that were out there, if you can recall?

A.  Well, of course, our — the biggest agency of course was Lexington County Sheriff’s Office. I think the highway patrol, SLED.

Q.  Secret Service out there?

A.  Secret Service, yes, of course. And our agents.

Q.  Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Pitts:  A few questions.

Recross Examination

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  As the chief of the metropolitan air — metropolitan police, and given a visit to your airport by the president, were you in on several meetings with the Secret Service to determine the policy, the plan, to develop a secure area to protect the president?

A.  I was in on general briefings, but I was — you know, as far as a lot of specifics, you know — I would be involved in mainly like briefings dealing with like an airport site.

Q.  What do you mean an airport site?

A.  Well, I mean, it’s — we have — each event a lot of times is different, you know, whether the event is actually on the {p.1-111} airport or whether the individual is coming into the airport and going down. So, there are briefings pertaining to different locations. So, here — yeah, I was here dealing with the arrival. But I didn’t — that was the main briefing that I was involved in.

Q.  And the arrival being what you described as roughly an hour before when the president was to come; is that correct?

A.  Yes.

Mr. Pitts:  That’s all I have, thank you.

The Witness:  Okay.

The Court:  Thank you, sir, you may step down.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Barton:  Holly Able.

The Court:  Mr. Barton, how long is your direct going to take?

Mr. Barton:  I’m sure probably up to 1 o’clock. I imagine cross will be lengthy as well, so that might be a good place to stop.

Can we approach briefly?

(Off record discussion)

The Court:  Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to break for lunch at this time, instead of going ahead with Agent Able’s direct.

It’s 12:15, and let’s—

Can we reconvene at 1:30? Is that all right, Mr. Barton? 1:30?

Mr. Barton:  Yes, sir. {p.1-112}

The Court:  Mr. Pitts, 1:30?

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir, that will be fine.

The Court:  And that will give you an hour and 15 minutes.

Mr. Pitts:  That will be great.

The Court:  All right.

We will reconvene at 1:15—

I mean, I’m sorry, 1:30.

(Lunch recess)

The Court:  All right.

Everybody is present.

Call your next witness.

Mr. Barton:  The government calls Holly Able.

The Clerk:  If you would, place your left hand on the Bible and raise your right hand, please.

State your full name for the record.

The Witness:  Holly Able.

Holly Able, Sworn

Direct Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  By whom are you employed, please?

A.  The United States Secret Service.

Q.  And in what capacity?

A.  I’m a special agent.

Q.  And how long have you been employed with the Secret Service?

A.  Approximately five and-a-half years. {p.1-113}

Q.  And where and how long have you served in that capacity?

A.  I served three and-a-half years in the Miami field office and I’m going on two years in the New York field office.

Q.  Okay. And what — do you hold any positions in the New York field office?

A.  The New York field office, I’m a backup of most squads, which is considered like the assistant to the supervisor of the squad.

Q.  Okay. Have you had occasion in the past to perform security functions for United States presidents while they were on trips?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And which presidents have you done that for?

A.  Current, the current administration, Bush and Cheney, plus Clinton, former Bush, Carter, foreign dignitaries.

Q.  How about first ladies?

A.  First ladies.

Q.  Okay.

A.  Both current and former.

Q.  And how many domestic visits within the United States of America have you traveled on providing security functions for United States presidents?

A.  Be in the hundreds.

Q.  Okay. How about foreign visitors?

A.  I actually just completed two last week, so now it’s up to {p.1-114} eight.

Q.  Were you involved in the president’s visit to the — to Columbia, South Carolina on October 24th, 2002?

A.  Yes, I was.

Q.  And what was your function that day, Agent Able?

A.  I was a member of what we call the PI team, it’s the protective intelligence team for that site.

Q.  Okay. When did you arrive in Columbia? He arrived on the 24th, when did you arrive?

A.  The day before.

Q.  And what do you do the day before the visit?

A.  I was assigned that visit as what we call post standers. And you arrive the day before, usually the afternoon before. You meet with entire other — the group of other post standers, other agents and members of the presidential protective, for an hour — usually about an hour briefing.

Q.  Okay. And what kinds of things are discussed at the briefing? You don’t have to give specifics, but what types of things?

A.  The itinerary of the visit, any concerns. Your assignments are given at that time on what site you will be posted at the next day and reporting instructions.

Q.  And what assignment again did you get, I’m sorry?

A.  I was a member of the PI team, which is the protective intelligence team. It’s also called the ID team. {p.1-115}

Q.  The ID team, does that stand for identification?

A.  Intelligence division team. Some people call it ID team, some people call it protective intelligence team.

Q.  What is the function of the protective intelligence team?

A.  When — there’s actually an agent that comes down from headquarters that is the lead PI agent, and he coordinates all the different teams.

Like I said, at each site, there was a team for that day, there were three different PI teams.

Q.  Okay.

A.  At my site our responsiblity was general observation, roving the area, looking for anything suspicious, whether it’s a vehicle, an individual, it could be anything as simple as somebody coming up trying to deliver a letter to the president. And in that case, you know, you respond to that and interview them.

Q.  And are you assigned a particular — were you assigned to the Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Not just the Doolittle Hanger, that whole area —

Q.  Okay.

A.  — that encompasses that particular site.

Q.  But you didn’t go to the Sheraton?

A.  No.

Q.  So, you stayed —

A.  It was a separate PI team for that. {p.1-116}

Q.  Okay. Were you by yourself doing this function?

A.  No, you are always — PI teams are always paired with the local law enforcement. That day I was paired with Tamara Baker from SLED.

Q.  From SLED?

A.  Yes.

Q.  From the State Law Enforcement Division?

A.  Yes.

Q.  By way of an example, have you received information about a possible threat or an individual who was a threat to the president?

A.  That morning Tamara advised me, and that’s exactly why we were prepared —

Mr. Pitts:  I object. I object to what Lieutenant Baker is going to tell her.

Mr. Pitts:  I will ask Lieutenant Baker to do that.

The Court:  Objection sustained.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  What time did you arrive at the Doolittle Hanger on October 24th, do you recall?

A.  It was about 7:30 that morning.

Q.  Okay. And where were you located? What did you start doing?

A.  Our job was to observe the crowd, look for anything suspicious. And, you know, if we were notified of any {p.1-117} lookouts, we were to observe the crowd and anybody approaching that area.

Q.  And by “lookouts,” you mean a specific person to look for?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Prior to the arrival of — do you recall about what time the president was supposed to get there?

A.  I believe it was somewhere between like 10 and 11, somewhere in there.

Q.  Okay. Prior to the president arriving, did you have occasion to meet a person who was later identified to you as Brett Bursey?

A.  Yes, I did.

Q.  And do you see Mr. Bursey in the courtroom today?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Would you identify him for the record, please?

A.  He’s in the middle of the three gentlemen.

Mr. Barton:  Let the record reflect she’s identified the defendant, Your Honor.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  What — how did he come to your attention?

A.  We — we have what you call restricted area at all sites, and there was a restricted area outside of the Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  Would you tell the court what the parameters — your understanding of where that restricted area was? {p.1-118}

A.  I was told at the intersection outside the Doolittle Hanger — there is Airport Boulevard, as far as Airport Boulevard it was restricted all the way down to the front entrance, I believe that’s 302, and in the opposite direction to the next intersection. That’s across an intersection that crosses in Lexington — I don’t know if it’s Road or Boulevard, I’m not from here.

Q.  It’s Avenue, actually.

A.  Avenue. In that direction approximately 100 yards out. Yeah. That way (indicating). A restricted area as far as that is concerned, only people that are allowed in that area are authorized. That could mean law enforcement, a member of the administrative staff, Secret Service agents, and if it’s a ticketed event, then ticket holders for that event.

Q.  Okay. Do you recall where the individuals who were attending this function — before I get to Mr. Bursey — where the individuals who were attending this function were parking?

A.  Were parking? Yes, they were parking down Lexington.

Q.  On that chart you are talking Lexington Avenue toward the top of the chart; is that correct? And is that the direction they seem to be approaching from?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Was there anything being done to determine if these individuals on foot had tickets?

A.  Yes, they had local law enforcement posted at this {p.1-119} intersection here, you know, and they were instructed to either ask — I’m not sure whether they were asking them or physically asking them to show them if they were ticket holders, I just know that was their instructions.

Q.  Did you see local law enforcement out there —

A.  Yes.

Q.  — talking with individuals?

A.  Yes. And I actually saw them turning — you know, stopping people. But, like I said, I don’t know if they were, you know, physically asking for the ticket or just asking if they had one.

Q.  Okay. Tell me how Mr. Bursey — back to that — tell me how Mr. Bursey came to your attention.

A.  Mr. Bursey came and —

Q.  Where was he coming from?

A.  I believe — I’m not sure if he was coming from Lexington or not, to be honest.

Q.  When did you first see him?

A.  I just first saw him when he walked —

Q.  You can step down.

A.  When I first saw him, actually we were over here observing the crowd.

The Court:  Let the record show that she’s pointing to the area outside of the fence, between the fence and the grassy area. {p.1-120}

A.  We were over here observing the people in line. This is the first —

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  When you say “we,” who are you referring to?

A.  Me and Tamara Baker, that was her job. And we were roving this area. Mr. Bursey, when I first spotted him, he was in this area right here. He appeared — he had —

The Court:  Let the record show that’s right at the intersection of the grassy area with the intersection of the parking lot and Airport Boulevard, correct?

Mr. Barton:  That appears so, Your Honor.

Mr. Pitts:  And on the hanger side of —

The Court:  Well, you need to describe — instead of saying “this area,” you need to describe it so when there’s a transcript we will be able to tell from reading the transcript what you are talking about.

A.  Okay. It was the grassy area to the — I guess that’s the left, if you are inside the hangar — left of Doolittle Hanger at the intersection of Lexington and Airport Boulevard.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Okay. And you were describing what he had or what he was doing.

A.  When he appeared, he had a bunch of signs underneath his arm. I can’t tell you how many, it was a lot. And a megaphone in the other hand, or a bull horn, whichever you choose to call {p.1-121} it.

Q.  Could you describe the signs? What are you talking about?

A.  They were signs on post — I believe they were on poster board. I don’t recall whether or not they had sticks on the signs, I just remember there were a bunch of signs.

Q.  And was there anybody else in that area with Mr. Bursey?

A.  No, at that time he was by himself then. And I turned to Tamara Baker and asked her, you know, “Look at this guy, we need to go find out what he’s doing.”

And when we approached him, he had some — he put the signs on the ground and he had the megaphone. And, you know, it was my understanding he was there to demonstrate because of the megaphone and the signs.

Q.  Okay. The individuals approaching the area to attend the function, where were they during this time?

A.  They were in — they were in the parking lot in line.

Q.  Okay. How about people walking down — was there anyone walking down Lexington Avenue?

A.  At this time, yes, there were still people coming here. And like I said, they were being stopped here by local law enforcement and asked if they had tickets.

Mr. Barton:  And I have handed photographs to counsel that I would like to show the witness.

You can take a seat.

By Mr. Barton: {p.1-122}

Q.  I show you Government’s Exhibit Number 2, do you recognize that?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Where is that?

A.  That’s the grassy area that I was referring to.

Q.  When you first saw Mr. Bursey?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  And Government’s Exhibit Number 5, is that the same grassy area?

A.  Yes.

Mr. Barton:  Move to admit these.

The Court:  Any objection?

Mr. Pitts:  None.

The Court:  All right, without objection.

Mr. Barton:  Do you want to see these?

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  So, what did you and Agent Baker do after you spotted him?

A.  We approached him. Like I said, it’s part of the PI team, your job is to go and investigate, interview the — anybody that, you know, seems out of place.

Q.  And why did he seem out of place?

A.  Well, there — people were not congregating in that area, they were only there to cross that intersection to get in line.

Q.  All right.

A.  He was stopped at that area. He wasn’t moving towards the {p.1-123} line and he wasn’t, you know, passing by to go to the airport. And plus he had the signs.

Q.  Okay.

A.  We approached him and —

Q.  Tell the court what happened.

A.  We approached Mr. Bursey and asked him, you know, basically what he was doing there.

Q.  Do you recall what he said?

A.  I—

I’m not sure of the exact words. And, you know, I believe he was—

In some terms, that he was there to demonstrate. To exercise his freedom of speech.

I explained to him that there was a designated demonstration area, that every time there’s a visit that’s always designated by the local law enforcement.

And I gave him the location of that demonstration area.

Q.  Did you identify yourself?

A.  Yes.

“ I told him, “You can go to the demonstration area”.”

p.1-124

Q.  And what did you tell him?

A.  I told him I’m a Secret Service agent.

I identified Ms. Baker as a member of SLED.

And told him this was our policy.

That we had a demonstration area that was already — had already been deemed by the local law enforcement.

And that he could go there.

Q.  Did you describe this area in any way?

A.  The demonstration area or— {p.1-124}

Q.  That area that he was in?

A.  I explained to him that this was a restricted area, and that he could not stay there.

Q.  Okay.

When you told him about the demonstration area, did he respond to that?

A.  Yes. He—

He said that he had already knew where it was.

And that it was too far away.

And that he didn’t feel like he could, he would be seen or heard there.

It was too far away.

He didn’t want to go there.

Q.  Okay. What did you tell him that he could do?

A.  Then I told him that that’s what— You know—

He needed to go to that area because—

If he planned to demonstrate.

Some more conversation ensued.

I later—

Q.  Was anybody with him at this point?

A.  At that point, when he first came, he was alone.

Q.  Okay.

A.  First alone.

Q.  Okay.

A.  Later, I gave him — you know—

He told me he did not want to leave. He did not want to go to the demonstration area.

After this conversation went on, and wasn’t getting anywhere, I gave him some choices of what he wanted to do.

Q.  What choices did you give him?

A.  I told him,

“You can go to the demonstration area. You can get in line if you have a ticket. And you can take your signs, {p.1-125} as long as they don’t have sticks attached to them.”

Q.  Why are you concerned about the sticks?

A.  It’s Secret Service policy. We don’t care if you carry signs in. But no sticks. Because they can be used as a weapon. I mean, to harm— Not only to protect you, but other individuals.

Q.  Okay.

A.  I told him once again:

He could go to the demonstration area.

He could get in line, if he had a ticket and had, and took any sticks off the signs.

He could go home.

Or he could be arrested and go to jail.

And he said, “Arrest me, I want to go to jail.”

Q.  Okay.

Did all of this take place in this first time when you saw him, here, in this corner?

Or on this grassy area?

A.  No. At that point, when I gave him those choices, he had moved to—

He had crossed the street, and he was at this location.

Q.  And did you consider that location still to be within the restricted area?

A.  Yes. Yes, it’s still a restricted area.

The Court:  Across the street diagonally, he was across the street diagonally from where he was?

The Witness:  Correct.

The Court:  In the grass, correct?

The Witness:  Correct. {p.1-126}

The Court:  Okay, all right.

The Witness:  Still at the intersection of Airport and Lexington.

The Court:  All right.

A.  And when I gave him these choices, at that point it had not only become just restricted to ticket holders, at that point it had become restricted to everybody except law enforcement.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Okay.

Well, before that, was he joined with anybody at that corner?

Was he still alone at that point?

A.  No, then three individuals joined him at that point.

Q.  Can you describe them? Do you know—

A.  There were two men and a lady.

Q.  And what were they doing?

A.  They were there to do the same thing he was there — demonstrate.

And they—

We explained the same thing to them about the demonstration area. They were familiar with the location as well.

Q.  How do you know they were there to demonstrate?

A.  They—

Some of them actually had the signs in their hands at one point. They never lifted—

I never saw anybody lift the sign.

Q.  Okay. Did Mr. Bursey have a sign in his hands at any point?

A.  I never saw him lift them. {p.1-127}

Q.  Okay.

A.  But he had them underneath his arm. And—

Q.  Did you see what any of these signs said?

A.  No.

Q.  Do you recall if you even saw what was on any of the signs?

A.  No. I mean, honestly, I never read the sign.

Q.  Okay.

How long did you converse with Mr. Bursey on — in the first location, the one in the grassy area, to the right of the intersection?

A.  I would say approximately 10 minutes. 10 or 15 minutes.

Q.  Were you still advising him of this — of these options he had?

A.  Yes.

Q.  When you cross over to the diagonal corner, how long did you discuss this with him?

A.  I would say another 10 — 10 to 15 minutes.

Q.  How long was he there before these individuals joined him there?

A.  They probably—

He had probably been at the first location about 10 minutes before they joined. Five to 10 minutes.

Q.  Okay. But, again, I guess I’m confused.

Did they join him at the first location? Or the second location?

A.  The second location.

Q.  Okay. And what did you tell them—

I’m sorry, I may have said that.

What did you explain to the new individuals who {p.1-128} arrived?

A.  We explained to them the same thing we had explained to Mr. Bursey:

That there was a designated demonstration area. It was located at 302 and Airport Boulevard. They are welcome to go down there. Or they could do the same:

They could get in line if they had a ticket.

They could go to the demo area.

Go home.

Or be arrested and go to jail.

Q.  And when he first moved across — diagonally across — to the second location, were there still people in line and were coming up Lexington Avenue to go into the hanger?

A.  When he moved to the second location?

Q.  When he first moved to the second location?

A.  When he first moved there.

But then there came a time when there was no one else out there.

Q.  Okay. Well, I will get to that in a second.

Did you give—

Well—

What did Mr. Bursey say during this time?

You are giving him four options.

What was his response to that?

A.  And he says, “I want to go to jail. Arrest me.”

Q.  All right.

Did you give him any examples about types of people who couldn’t be in that area?

A.  Once it was all — that area was completely shut down, yes.

Q.  What did you tell him?

A.  I said, “Look around you, there is nobody else here.” I said, “Don’t you understand, it’s completely closed off now.” {p.1-129}

I said, “I don’t care if you are a little girl with a bunch of flowers to give the president, I would make you leave. Because at this point, this entire area is closed, except for Secret Service agents and law enforcement.”

Q.  Is that what you explained to him?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Did you tell him that corner was also within the restricted area?

A.  Yes, that perimeter I described to you earlier.

Q.  Okay.

Do you recall approximately how long before the president arrived that the area was shut down?

A.  Completely shut down? Probably about 10 minutes out.

Q.  Okay.

When you—

Did you give all four of these individuals, there, those four options you have just described?

A.  Yes.

Q.  What did Mr.—

Did Mr. Bursey say anything, to the other three individuals?

A.  I don’t recall.

Q.  And what did those other three individuals do?

A.  I remember some phone calls were being made back and forth on cell phones.

The other three individuals didn’t give me an answer right off.

Mr. Bursey immediately gave me his answer.

Q.  And what was his answer again?

A.  “Arrest me.”

Q.  Okay.

How long did it take the other individuals to give {p.1-130} you their answers, or do something?

A.  Probably about a good five minutes. A good long five minutes.

Q.  Okay. And what did—

What was their answer?

What did they do?

A.  They all chose to leave the site, the area.

Q.  Okay.

During this period, did a vehicle pull up to this area?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And stop?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Tell me about that. What happened with that.

A.  There was some conversation. I can’t recall any of the exact words. There was some discussion about, maybe, with the signs, and if they were going to leave them, or take them.

Q.  And what did they do with the signs?

A.  I believe they may have loaded some in the car.

Q.  Did that vehicle leave?

A.  Yes, the vehicle left.

Q.  After the other three individuals left, what did you do with Mr. Bursey?

A.  He was—

There was local law enforcement out there as well who had also been telling him the same thing I had been telling him.

Q.  Was Agent Baker still with you in your presence? {p.1-131}

A.  Yes. We—

Q.  You mean in addition to Agent Baker?

A.  Correct. There were—

I believe they were Lexington County.

Q.  Okay.

A.  At that point, of course, they, the local law enforcement, meaning Lexington County, was aware of what was going on as well. There was a gentleman that had a radio mike on his shoulder. He radioed the airport police and they responded.

Q.  Okay. How long did it take the airport police to get there?

A.  About five minutes.

Q.  Okay. Did you have a conversation with the airport policeman?

A.  I just explained to him—

Q.  Did you have a conversation with the—

A.  Yes.

Q.  Did you direct the airport policeman to arrest Mr. Bursey?

A.  I—

I told him what I had told Mr. Bursey.

Q.  Okay.

What did you tell the airport policeman?

A.  That he needed to go to the demonstration area. And that he refused to leave. And that it was a restricted area. And now it had become completely shut down. I explained to him why it was being shut down, and that Mr. Bursey refused to leave this {p.1-132} area.

Q.  Okay.

What did the airport policeman do?

A.  He said he was going to arrest him.

Q.  Did he in fact arrest him?

A.  Yes.

Q.  How was he transported out of the area?

A.  There was a van that he loaded him up in.

Q.  Okay.

From the best you can recall, from the time you first saw Mr. Bursey — with his signs, at that first location you described, where he dropped them on the ground — until he was arrested and taken away, about how much time had passed?

A.  20 or 25 minutes.

Q.  And why did you have, call for a local officer to come in and arrest him?

Why did you have a local officer arrest Mr. Bursey that day?

A.  That’s just something that we usually do. It facilitates the whole process if a local law enforcement handles it, as opposed to us. It’s their jurisdiction. That way if the locals are handling the arrest, then we won’t be coming to South Carolina to testify, and fill out paperwork.

Q.  Okay.

After Mr.—

Was Mr. Bursey driven in the van away from the area?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Okay.

And did the president arrive without incident?

A.  Yes. {p.1-133}

Q.  What were your duties after the president’s arrival?

A.  After that, after everything was taken care of with Mr. Bursey, I was told to go inside the hanger, observe — observe the crowd and just general observation, you know, make sure you don’t see anything unusual. And then upon departure from Doolittle Hanger, I was —

Q.  Upon whose departure?

A.  Upon the president’s departure from Doolittle Hanger, I was told to go back out to that area for the same general observation.

Q.  And when he left Doolittle Hanger, what did you do? Where did you go?

A.  After that, the president was going to the Sheraton for a length of time. So, at that point they said, you know, “You have some downtime, go eat lunch,” and then at a certain time respond back to the airport in the vicinity of where he would be departing on Air Force One.

Q.  Let me put here Government’s Exhibits 3, 4, and 6. I want to show you Government’s Exhibit 1 A.

The Court:  What, 1 A?

Mr. Barton:  1 A, Yes, Your Honor. It will make sense in a minute.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Do you recognize Government’s 3, 4, and 6?

A.  Uh-huh. {p.1-134}

Q.  Could you relate them for the court to the numbers that appear on here, beginning with Government’s Exhibit 2 through 6? What do these numbers on here represent, on Government’s Exhibit 1 A?

A.  Well, 2 — this —

Q.  Which one have you got in your hand?

A.  This area — this would be —

Q.  What number is that exhibit?

A.  4.

Q.  Okay. Is there a 4 on Government’s Exhibit 1?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what does that show?

A.  That’s the area—

Well, Mr. Bursey first appeared here.

Q.  Okay.

I’m asking you to explain to the court what the numbers in the area on the chart indicate.

The Court:  Is Exhibit 4, is that the area marked 4 on this 1 A?

Mr. Barton:  It’s the direction the camera is pointing.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Is that correct?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Okay.

A.  This was the area that actually the van appeared.

Q.  Okay. Okay.

But it was taken as if it was at number 4, in {p.1-135} that direction?

A.  Looking in that direction.

Q.  And Government’s Exhibits 2 through 6 are all reflective of that area?

A.  Yes, that whole area.

The Court:  Those are pictures taken of someone standing in those areas looking at the hangar?

Mr. Barton:  Correct.

The Court:  That’s what somebody standing on those spots would see looking in the direction of the hanger?

Mr. Barton:  Of the area.

The Court:  Okay, I got it.

Mr. Barton:  And this is actually, Your Honor, 1 A is just a smaller version of 1.

I move to admit 1 A.

The Court:  Do you object?

Mr. Pitts:  No.

The Court:  Government’s 3, 4, and 6 and 1 A without objection.

Mr. Barton:  Just a moment, Your Honor.

That’s all the questions I have, Agent Able.

Answer any questions that Mr. Pitts has for you.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts.

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir, Your Honor, just one moment.

Cross Examination {p.1-136}

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Able, my name is Lewis Pitts, I’m representing Mr. Bursey along with Rauch Wise.

If we could, let’s go back to talk about the planning for this event.

Had you been involved in meetings prior to the day before, prior to October 23rd?

A.  Only—

Only the briefing, the hour long briefing that I have referred to earlier.

Q.  Had you had any contact by telephone, or other correspondence, with any South Carolina law enforcement people prior to October 23rd?

A.  No.

Q.  And had you been given any information prior to October 24th that Mr. Bursey had contacted the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, to say he planned to demonstrate, and he wanted to communicate with law enforcement about a proper way to do that?

A.  No.

Q.  So, had you heard the name Brett Bursey prior to October 24th?

A.  No.

Q.  And the post stander assignment, that’s primarily why you were here? You had one of those assignments?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And how many other Secret Service agents were involved with post stander assignment? {p.1-137}

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor please, that’s the same question that Agent Cohen asked not to go into the specific numbers.

The Court:  That previous testimony was, it was anywhere from 50 to 100?

Mr. Barton:  That’s correct.

The Court:  Is that correct?

The Witness:  That’s correct.

Mr. Pitts:  Just one moment, Your Honor, let me —

Just one minute, Your Honor.

The Court:  All right.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Let me hand you what is marked as Defendant’s Exhibit 2 and Defendant’s Exhibit 3.

Can we look at these together?

A.  Okay.

Q.  Would you describe what exhibit — Defendant’s Exhibit — 2 is, please?

A.  It says, “Post Stander Instructions”.

Q.  And is that the way the documents looked?

Is that one of the documents that you saw in preparation for October 24th?

A.  Yes. This is not for me, but—

Q.  What was your post stander number?

A.  A PI team doesn’t have a post number, because you are roving. You are not assigned to a specific location.

Q.  And so would you read to us post 203, please? {p.1-138}

A.  “Post 203, arrival/departure area. Maintain integrity of the arrival and departure area. Ensure that no unauthorized individuals access this area. Ensure area is sterile upon arrival and departure. Prior to arrival you will be pushed by the site agent. You should move to the north end of the building and ensure no unauthorized individuals approach the arrival/departure areas before and during movements through this area. You will liaison with and be assisted by a local police officer.”

Q.  The line that says — if you would indicate either by use of me or with your own use of the pointer — where it says, “Prior to arrival you will be pushed by the site agent.”

What does that mean?

A.  Site agent would be the individual that is in charge of that site.

So, what they are saying is, prior to arrival of the president you will be pushed, which is relieved by the site agent.

And usually what they do is, when you are relieved by that agent, you are instructed to go to a different location and assist another agent.

Q.  That’s the push part—

A.  Yes.

Q.  —pushed by?

And so this number post 203 is, I guess, part of your standard uses of post, that’s a post at which, to which, someone is assigned?

A.  Correct. {p.1-139}

Q.  And do you know where this post would be on this Government’s Exhibit 1? Designated as arrival/departure area?

A.  Area. Yes, he was arriving at the Doolittle Hanger, behind—

Q.  Can you point specifically to where post 203 would be? Let me—

Mr. Pitts:  Is that glaring, Your Honor?

The Court:  That’s all right.

A.  I believe it was in this vicinity right here.

The Court:  The witness is indicating to the left of the Doolittle Hanger area.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Is it—

Assuming this diagram is structured with north at the top, would it be necessarily the north part of Doolittle Hanger or the—

A.  I’m not sure because I wasn’t assigned to that post, that was post 203.

Q.  Okay.

A.  The day—

That day you actually have a map. So, if post 203 had called me on the radio and said, “Respond to my location.” At that point, I would have opened up my pocket map and found out exactly where it was.

Q.  So, that’s how that works. There’s a diagram with a post marked.

So somebody is roving and has to be pushed to know where to go? {p.1-140}

A.  Exactly.

Q.  But why do you think it’s where you are pointing, which is to the left hand, northern part of Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Well, at one point the motorcade was staged in this area — upon — when they were getting ready to depart.

As far as the president entering in that area, as far as actually walking into the building, no. It was—

I’m sure it was more likely back here.

Q.  Do you know where the president was to enter the building?

A.  I don’t know, I don’t know the exact spot he entered the building. Like I said, my position was out here. We have a presidential protective division, and you have post standers.

Post standers are not going to be in this area unless they are told to be over there. You don’t do that as a policy. I have no reason to be over in this area, unless I’m called to go over there.

Q.  Okay.

Now, how about if you could look at—

I guess maybe—

I guess return to your seat. I don’t think this question relates to the diagram.

Can I move introduction of Defendant’s 2?

The Court:  Without objection?

Mr. Barton:  No objection.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Let me hand you what has been marked as Defendant’s Exhibit 3.

Would you describe what that is, please, ma’am? {p.1-141}

A.  This is another post stander instruction sheet.

Q.  210 and 211?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And would you mind reading 210, please?

A.  210 is the main mag checkpoint. “You will liaison with uniformed division and local police to ensure the orderly processing of the guests through the magnetometer checkpoint. Watch the backs of the UD officers as they perform their function. There will be volunteer staff taking tickets and directing the guests to the function. You should not involve yourself with this process.”

Q.  And do you know where on this diagram the mag checkpoint was?

A.  Yes, the mag checkpoint was — if you come around the front of the Doolittle Hanger, it was to the right, over in that area.

Q.  In here, between where the—

It looks like a small building to the very right—

A.  Yes.

Q.  —bottom of this chart?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And it was in between there.

That was a mag check?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Did you ever work that area?

A.  No. {p.1-142}

Q.  All right. How about the next entry there?

A.  “Bike rack perimeter/Tarmac area.”

Q.  And that’s labeled as post —

A.  Post 211. “After your AP arrival assignment you will report to this post to supplement the police—”

Q.  I’m sorry, clarify. “After your AP arrival,” what does AP mean?

A.  Your airport arrival assignment.

Q.  Okay.

A.  “—you will report to this post to supplement the police officers at the east and west ends of the bike rack perimeter while POTUS —” which stands for president of the United States — “is in the event. No one should access or view this event past your post.”

Q.  And do you know where that post was, 211 —

A.  211?

Q.  — describing it?

A.  I have a general idea, but I never responded to that post.

Q.  From what you have got there, where is that?

A.  It says Tarmac area, so the Tarmac would be the — of course, on the runway where the — where the planes are.

Q.  And did you actually see bike racks there?

A.  No. I never had a view of this place.

Q.  Okay. All right.

Now, were there post stander assignments to cover or define the secure restricted area? {p.1-143}

A.  I don’t understand the question.

Q.  You know, the circle or the square or the egg shaped, however the area was described as the secure area for the president, were there post stander assignments around that perimeter?

A.  Around that perimeter? No, that’s — such an outer — that’s local law enforcement.

Q.  And they don’t see or participate or have these post stander assignments?

A.  At the outer edges of the perimeters?

Q.  (Nods head in the affirmative).

A.  It was my job to observe this area and make sure that no one was in the restricted area. As far as posts being at the very outer of those perimeters, no, I’m not —

Q.  And is it fair to say that all of the post stander assignments were in and around the building part of Doolittle Hanger?

A.  You have got to ask the site agent that. It’s his responsibility to—

Q.  But you are not sure?

A.  I would have to see a post assignment log.

Q.  And you had to see the map that you described. You had one of those, did you not?

A.  I either had one—

I can’t recall if I had one on me or, if not, then there would be one readily available. {p.1-144}

Q.  As part of your preparation for this event had you looked at the map, the diagram?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Because you were roving?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Okay.

And do you remember seeing any post stander assignments that were outside of the Tarmac area around Doolittle Hanger?

A.  I don’t recall. There was so much law enforcement, I don’t recall.

Q.  You don’t recall?

A.  If there were actually posts outside of the Doolittle — I don’t recall.

Q.  I guess I need help in kind of finding—

Where did Secret Service post stander duties end and local law enforcement duties begin?

Can you answer that as best you can from your involvement that day?

A.  A lot of times, as in the case with my duties, they intertwine. You are working — you know, there’s not really a boundary there. Except maybe like I told you, the very, very outer perimeter, you may put local law enforcement as opposed to agents.

Q.  Now, when you say the “very, very outer perimeter,” that’s the outer perimeter of what?

A.  Of the restricted area. {p.1-145}

Q.  The restricted area. And what was the outer perimeter of the restricted area for October 24?

A.  Airport Boulevard down to the intersection where 302—

Q.  All right.

A.  Airport Boulevard in the opposite direction, to the next intersection. And Lexington, up approximately 100 yards.

Q.  And do you know how this perimeter—

This perimeter up Lexington Avenue, that’s where most of the vehicular traffic was going, was it not?

A.  Correct. I believe there’s a parking lot, or a college.

Q.  So, people were in effect directed in here to park, and then they had to do some walking down here?

A.  (Nods head in the affirmative).

Q.  Do you know how that 100 yards, or whatever that designation — or how that was publicized? How someone would know where that point began and where it ended?

A.  They were being told by the local law enforcement and by us, Secret Service.

Q.  That they could not go in the restricted area?

A.  Once they parked, they were allowed to walk to Lexington. Once they got to the intersection, they were approached by local law enforcement, asked, “Do you have a ticket?”

I’m not sure, as I stated earlier, whether or not they had to physically show the ticket. You would have to ask what their instructions were, given to local law enforcement. {p.1-146}

If they did not have a ticket, I did see some people being turned away, and I assumed that they didn’t have a ticket.

Q.  And did you know about the possibility of obtaining a ticket from down in the hangar area from presidential staff—

A.  No.

Q.  —working there?

A.  No, I wasn’t aware of that.

Q.  Did you know—

Well, were there any presidential staff working in the area of the hanger?

A.  Yes, there is always staff around the event site.

Q.  And from your experience, prior to October 24th, and since then, is it common that the staff would have tickets to be handing out at that point?

A.  To be honest, as far as I — my working knowledge, no. You know, someone on the presidential detail may have a better understanding of that, but I have never been to an event where they were handing out tickets at the door.

Q.  Okay.

And did you ever see a diagram or map with the full area known to be restricted indicated on it?

A.  Did I ever see —

Q.  See that on a diagram?

A.  No. I was told by the lead protective intelligence agent that day.

Q.  Now, isn’t it true that there was a point in time at which {p.1-147} that full permimeter restricted area was closed. And then there came another point when it was open. And another point when it was closed?

A.  Correct.

Q.  Okay.

And who made that decision about when those times would be?

A.  The—

It’s either made by the site agent that day from the presidential protective division, or the agents that are in charge of the motorcade route. Those two would be in communication. You could receive orders from either one.

Q.  And were those being made — I’m not sure of the right word — ad hoc? Based on the events as they were unfolding? Was it predetermined at a certain time of the day things were to happen? What were the criteria about when it was open versus when it was closed? Do you know?

A.  You are going to have a general feel of when the general time everything is going to be shut down, because based on the itinerary. But as far as it actually being shut down, you know, you are not going to look at your watch and say, “It’s 11 o’clock, we are shutting it down,” because the president may be running 30 minutes late.

You would shut it down based on your instructions. But you have a general idea of when you need to start getting close to that point.

Q.  And the local law enforcement that were out in the {p.1-148} permimeter areas of this restricted area, do you know if they had any written guidelines?

A.  I have no idea.

Q.  On whether to let people in or out?

A.  I don’t know. I don’t know their instructions.

Q.  What’s the common—

What’s the standard operating procedure for that?

A.  There’s always a police meeting with the details. But as far as what’s their instructions, I wouldn’t know.

Like I said, I was a post stander.

Q.  Of the events that you’ve covered, have you ever seen written instructions from the Secret Service to the local law enforcement as to how and when to let people in versus excluding people? Written instructions?

A.  See, I have never — I’m not on the presidential detail, so you would have — I don’t know how they handle that.

Q.  Again, when the area is not restricted and open, there would certainly be the potential of people who wanted to be in a public area, along a public access, a roadway where there’s a paved sidewalk, or sort of a pathway sidewalk, who may want to exercise free speech? That’s something that you would anticipate if the area is open?

A.  Well, there’s the restricted area, and then beyond the restricted area, of course, it’s open to the public.

Q.  But if the restricted area is not really restricted, and {p.1-149} people are allowed in through these outer posts of local law enforcement, it’s reasonable to anticipate some of those folks may want to come right to this area and exercise their free speech rights?

A.  Why do you say it’s not really restricted?

Q.  Well, I thought you said that it wasn’t restricted up here, except at a certain time?

A.  No, it was a restricted period. But there came a time when it was shut down completely.

Q.  So, there’s a difference in “restricted period” and “shut down completely”?

A.  Yes. It was restricted, unless you had a ticket, or you were law enforcement, or you were staff, or you were Secret Service.

Q.  Okay.

A.  You couldn’t just come to that area and hang out.

Q.  So, let’s see. If it’s restricted and you are law enforcement or in some way security, then it’s pretty obvious why they are allowed to be in there, correct?

A.  Or if you had a ticket. Everybody there had a reason to be there.

If Mr. Bursey had had a ticket, and I explained that to him, he could get in line. If somebody, anybody—

But once again, the ticket holders, they weren’t allowed just to come and hang out there on the grass.

If they had a ticket, then they were told to get in line.

If you had a sign, you were told to go to the demonstration area. {p.1-150}

Q.  But isn’t—

If you had a sign, you were told to go to the demonstration area.

Is there any area other than the demonstration area — which I think you identified for us as a specific site — where a person was assigned {sic: ?with a sign?}, wanting to demonstrate, could go to?

A.  Not in that restricted area.

Q.  Even if it was 8 o’clock that morning?

A.  We were there at 7:30. Yes, not as long as it’s a restricted area.

Q.  So, was it restricted the entire morning?

A.  Yes, once — once these posts are in place, it’s restricted.

Q.  You are pointing to Defendant’s Exhibit 3, which let me move admission —

A.  Not just these, all the posts.

The Court:  Any objection?

Mr. Barton:  No objection.

The Court:  Without objection.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  You are pointing to the post stander, you said once they are in place. But you also told us they are never in place out in the perimeters of the restricted area; is that correct?

A.  Right, they are not in the outer perimeter. But this is a restricted area once everybody is on post.

Q.  So, once the post stander folks get in place, around the {p.1-151} hanger, and wherever else they may be, then you are saying that means that area is — the outer perimeter, all the way back to 302, and down here to the first intersection to the west — is shut down?

A.  No, I said there’s a difference in restricted and shut down. Vehicular traffic was still being allowed to flow.

Q.  All right. I think I—

Shut down means, even with a ticket you can’t get in?

A.  Correct.

Q.  But shut down means law enforcement can be in there?

A.  Correct, doing their job.

Q.  Right. Now, that means a distinction between law enforcement and ticketed people, right, on the closed down part?

A.  Correct.

Q.  But when it’s not closed down, and just restricted, law enforcement and ticket holders can come in?

A.  Right.

Q.  And that’s because they have got a reason to be there?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Now, the ticket holders at that point have in no way been screened. There’s been no criminal background check. There’s been nothing to determine whether or not they are a threat to the president.

Isn’t that correct?

A.  Not at the center section. That will come before they enter {p.1-152} the site. They will be going through magnetometers.

Q.  Right. But prior to the magnetometer checkpoint, here at Doolittle Hanger, out at any spot on this perimeter you have described, they can come through there as long as they say they have got a reason for being there and they claim to have a ticket?

A.  They could not come just hang out in that area. They could go get in the line. But they couldn’t just come and hang out there on the side of the road. No.

Q.  All right. And my question is, there is nothing about having a ticket indicates you have been screened for security purposes unless you have gotten down to the point at Doolittle Hanger.

Is that correct?

A.  Correct.

Q.  All right.

So, when you are a ticket holder, you say you have got a reason to be in here. You can get at least as far as there?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Which is the checkpoint at the hanger?

A.  Yes.

Q.  All right.

If you come in the perimeter, and you say you have got a reason to be there, which is to stand on a public highway, or its right-of-way, to exercise your First Amendment right, you have not been screened either for any kind of background security.

Have you? {p.1-153}

A.  No.

Q.  But you are not allowed to get in here?

A.  Because there is no reason. The ticket holders couldn’t stand there, whether they are demonstrating or not. They are told where they are supposed to go. The demonstrators, to a designated area that is being designated by local law enforcement.

Mr. Bursey was directed to that area to simply avoid him getting in any trouble. If he had had a ticket, he was certainly welcome to go get in line.

Q.  So, the policy is, if you are going to protest anywhere in this large area that you have described, the restricted area, you can really only do it outside of that area, which is at the designated demonstration area?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And that’s even if it’s 7:30 in the morning and the president is not coming until noon?

A.  It’s only once we deem that the restricted area. And that would be left up to the site agent.

Q.  Well, when did you deem it the restricted area?

A.  I didn’t deem it. He did. And it’s usually done once everybody reports and goes on post.

Q.  And when is that usually, in terms of minutes or hours prior to the presidential arrival?

A.  You would have to ask him that. That’s just what— {p.1-154}

Q.  You were working your job. What happened that day?

A.  I was there at 7:30, I—

Q.  Well, was it shut down?

A.  I do not recall what time.

Q.  Well, was the outside permimeter being restricted when you started working at 7:30? Or was it at a later point?

A.  It would have been probably within the next hour after that.

Q.  When you say “would have been” and “probably”. That’s the kind of thing that is not written down with any specificity?

A.  No. You are told—

The site agent makes that decision. Because everything—

The president—

They could call in and say, “You know what, he’s two hours behind schedule.”

Well, then you have already shut everything — you know, restricted stuff. Everything is based on—

Q.  Kind of ad hoc. Is it fair to say it’s ad hoc?

A.  No. We have a plan in place always. And we know our policy. But at the same time, as far as saying everything becomes restricted at this time, that’s not how it’s done. It’s usually based on the security sweep, once the sweep is completed.

They may have estimated that the sweep took, you know, four hours when it only took two. So, if it only took two, it’s going to become restricted, of course, a lot earlier.

Q.  As a part of this policy implemented on this day, October {p.1-155} 24th, were you a part of any meetings or briefings where there was a discussion about balancing the interests of protecting the president with the rights of citizens to exercise free speech rights?

A.  No.

Q.  That was never discussed?

A.  No.

Q.  Has that ever been discussed in any of your other security detail assignments since you have been in the Secret Service?

A.  No. We are always told where there’s a demonstration area that’s been—

When local law enforcement designates one, we are always made aware of where that is. That’s the only—

Q.  And if you are going to demonstrate, that is the only place you can do it.

Is that your understanding of the policy?

A.  Yes. They are directed to that demonstration area.

And a lot of it is for their own safety concerns. You don’t want people jumping out in front of a motorcade.

Q.  Now, did you have any participation in selecting the motorcade route?

A.  No.

Q.  Agent Able, in the terminology or the abbreviations that are used in your professional work, if there was an e-mail from headquarters to CSC, would that be Columbia, South Carolina? Or what would CSC— What would that stand for?

A.  I—

I don’t know. I guess Columbia. Maybe the field {p.1-156} office.

Q.  Okay.

(Off record discussion between counsel)

Mr. Barton:  There’s a little technical difficulty here.

The Court:  Must be an important document.

Mr. Barton:  We’ve got it figured out.

The Court:  I knew when Mr. Wise got up that we were going to make progress.

Mr. Barton:  He was the one causing the problem.

Mr. Wise:  No way.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Able, if I could show you what’s been marked as Defendant’s Exhibit 4. We understand that from the judge’s order—

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor please, he needs to lay the foundation. Not tell her what it is, but lay the foundation for that.

The Court:  If she knows what it is?

Mr. Barton:  If she can.

The Court:  See if you can identify that document?

A.  Actually the first time I saw this was yesterday.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  And does it look like an e-mail?

A.  Yes. {p.1-157}

Q.  Typed correspondence?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Does it appear to be coming from headquarters to the Columbia Secret Service?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And at the bottom of the first page of this—

Mr. Pitts:  And this is document 5, Your Honor, from the documents that were released to us pursuant to discovery request. Exhibit 4, but document—

The Court:  I got it.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  The paragraph begins, “On October 24, ‘02 at approximately 11:35,” would you read that, please, ma’am?

A.  “On 10-24-02 at approximately 11:35 hours S. A. Rhodes advised 10 protestors were demonstrating in front of the Columbia Municipal Airport. Airport police asked the protestors who were demonstrating antideath penalty to leave airport property. The protestors refused to leave the area. Airport police arrested one of the protestors for trespassing on airport property. The other nine protestors began to leave the area.”

Q.  Okay. With regard to what you know about what happened that day, is that an accurate e-mail coming from the Secret Service headquarters stating that the protestors were asked to leave airport property and refused to leave that area? {p.1-158}

A.  Well, eventually three left, one did not.

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I’m going to object—

Mr. Pitts:  That—

Mr. Barton:  Excuse me. This document isn’t in evidence, she has not identified that she authored it or was responsible for what is in there—

The Court:  She has to be able to identify the document for us to be able to admit it.

Mr. Barton:  We haven’t even found out who authored the document.

Mr. Pitts:  I haven’t moved to admit it. Let me just ask her the question.

The Court:  See, he read a description off the document. If you want to answer whether or not that’s an accurate description based on your own knowledge of what happened that day, you can answer yes or no.

The Witness:  No, it’s not.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  And, so, Mr. Bursey was not asked — and the other people who were there assembled with him to protest were not asked — to leave the airport property?

A.  Yes. I gave him that option, and he chose not to.

Q.  Well, it’s one thing to give an option, the document talks about they were asked to leave airport property. Were they asked to leave airport property? {p.1-159}

A.  I asked him to leave the area, yes. That is, I told him:

He could go home.

He could get in line if he had a ticket.

He could go to the demonstration area.

Or, he would have to suffer the consequences, and be arrested.

And he said, “I want to be arrested.”

As far as what the airport police told him when they arrested him, I have no idea.

Q.  Well, what I’m asking is, in your mind, do those four options equal how it’s stated here, which is a request to leave airport property?

The Court:  She can testify about anything that she has knowledge of. If she doesn’t know what this document is—

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Right. Regardless of this document, the document is behind my back—

Mr. Barton:  Then what is the relevance of this whole line of questioning?

The Court:  Don’t ask her about this document—

Mr. Pitts:  I’m not.

The Court:  —ask her about what—

Mr. Pitts:  Let’s put the document way over here.

The Court:  —what she knows.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  On that day, was Mr. Bursey, and other folks with him, asked to leave airport property?

A.  Well, “going home” would be leaving airport property. And {p.1-160} that was an option.

Q.  All right.

A.  I asked him to leave the restricted area.

Q.  And was the restricted area airport property?

A.  It encompassed airport—

Yes, it was—

Of course, it was on the airport property. The restricted area was.

He could go outside of the restricted area. I can’t make him leave that area.

Q.  Okay.

Did you tell Mr. Bursey, that at some spot from, we understand, 100 yards up off the top of this diagram, Government’s 1, on Lexington Boulevard, he would have been out of the restricted area?

A.  Yes. He knew the perimeters.

And so did his friends.

In fact, his friends had—

Q.  Now, how do you know Mr. Bursey knew what his friends knew?

A.  He was told.

Q.  So, are you testifying now, that you told him that 100 yards down or up Lexington Boulevard would have been non-secured?

A.  They parked their vehicles up there.

Q.  No. My question is, did you tell Mr. Bursey, prior to him being arrested, when you were giving him these choices, did you give him a choice to go 101 yards up Lexington Boulevard?

And he would be allowed to stay there?

A.  Yes, he could go there, or he—

Q.  Now, you know now, did you tell him that, that day? {p.1-161}

A.  I told him. I told everybody. They could go outside—

This was a restricted area. I explained to them. The perimeters. Where those locations were.

Q.  So, that’s my question.

Is that what you are testifying under oath?

That you told all those people assembled with Mr. Bursey, that there was a 100 yard spot up Lexington Boulevard, beyond which if he went, he could stand and protest?

A.  I didn’t tell him he could stand there and protest.

I told him he needed to go to the demonstration area to protest.

Q.  All right.

And I believe you did tell us that consistent with Secret Service policy, had Mr. Bursey obtained a ticket, and his sign had no stick on it, he would have been allowed to enter Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Correct.

Q.  Regardless—

A.  If he made it through the magnetometers. That would be up to the person — the uniformed division officers and the agents at that point. But he could go get in line just like everybody else. But he didn’t choose to do that.

Q.  Let me show you what has been introduced as Government’s Exhibit 7. It’s a document that’s headed “Intelligence Division Advance Manual,” and it says “Demonstrations.” Are you familiar with that document?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what’s the basis — what’s the purpose of having that {p.1-162} in the manual?

A.  It’s part of our training, our reading requirement, so we would understand the demonstration policies.

Q.  And what’s — how would you describe to me or to the court the reason for having a demonstration policy within Secret Service that has language such as on Government’s Number 7?

A.  Why do we have that?

Q.  Yes.

A.  In the event that we do have people there that wish to demonstrate.

Q.  Is there anything about this document that would indicate that part of your work in protecting the president and also protecting the nation is to protect citizens’ rights to demonstrate?

A.  We rely on the local law enforcement. That’s a question that is asked immediately by advance agents, “What is your policies as far as demonstration?” It’s up to local law enforcement to designate a demonstration area. Secret Service doesn’t designate that area.

Q.  Well, when this Government’s Exhibit 7 reads in one of its paragraphs, “Only in cases when the U.S. Secret Service has information that a demonstration poses a potential risk to a protectee, protective facility, foreign missions, or to the public safety, should the Secret Service personnel initiate and participate in discussions with the demonstration group or {p.1-163} suggest that the group be segregated from the general public area.”

Do you understand that to mean that it’s trying to caution you not to be overly broad, to take action that might chill or deny the demonstrators’ rights?

A.  We don’t deny anybody’s rights.

Q.  When you —

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I’m going to object to this again. I think that document speaks for itself, he’s asking this witness to interpret it now.

The Court:  He can ask questions about the document, that’s part of their manual. It’s overruled.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  How about this, and I’m reading from Defendant’s 7. “In the absence of specific fact or observable actions which would indicate a demonstration may pose a risk to a U.S. Secret Service protectee, protected facility, foreign mission or to the public safety, demonstrators should be treated as members of the general public. Secret Service personnel should not initiate any action to segregate demonstration activity from public areas.”

A.  We didn’t initiate it. The local law enforcement is the than one that establishes that.

Q.  They establish something called the demonstration area. But who initiated this permimeter that goes, as we described, {p.1-164} all the way from 302 to Lester Bates, up 100 yards, who made that decision?

A.  But that has nothing to do with the demonstration, that’s for security purposes.

Q.  Well, do you see maybe the point that along a public highway and an intersection that is particularly recognized as a public forum where free speech is protected —

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, that’s not a question.

The Court:  You can’t make an argument, you have got to ask questions.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Well, if the Secret Service puts an area that is so sweeping that it covers up and encompasses and deems as restricted the areas that traditionally are used for free speech, can you see that that might be an encroachment on —

Mr. Barton:  That is argumentative, that’s not a proper question for this witness.

The Court:  That is an argument for you to make to the court as to why something should be allowed or not allowed, but that’s not a question to the witness. The witness is here to testify as to facts.

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  And if you want to argue that the restricted area is too broad, that kind of thing, as far as your argument for acquittal, that’s something to be addressed {p.1-165} to the court. That’s not something to be addressed to the witness.

Mr. Pitts:  I understand.

The Court:  You need to ask her questions about facts.

Mr. Pitts:  But it seems like we would be entitled to probe on cross what her understanding and training —

The Court:  You can ask her what — now, that’s part of their manual, you can ask her what her understanding of that language in the manual means and what it’s for. But, I mean, don’t make a legal argument to her. That’s what you seem to be doing to me.

Mr. Pitts:  Thank you.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Able, from your readings in the manual and training, including such things as Exhibit 7, Government’s 7, do you think there may be an issue of chilling and initiating an effort to segregate demonstrators, when they are told that they can’t stand here at the intersection of Airport Boulevard and be approximately 200 yards away from the hanger?

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, that —

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Do you see that that is a violation of your training?

The Court:  I will allow her to answer the question, whether she thinks the — having a restricted area that goes {p.1-166} 100 yards I guess in either direction is violative of the instructions in that manual.

Is that your understanding, yes or no?

A.  To me, no, you don’t understand, it has nothing to do with demonstrations. We have people coming in there measuring line of sight. You know, there’s all these different issues that go in — it has nothing to do with demonstrations. It’s safety reasons. I don’t determine the boundaries and I certainly don’t even have the authority to, or the — it’s people that are a lot more educated on this type of thing.

Like I said, as far as — we have different divisions that go in there for weeks and measure, you know, line of sight and these kinds of stuff for the security of the president and the other people there.

Just like I wouldn’t allow a ticket holder, like I told you, to stand there. It had nothing to do with demonstrating, it is a security issue.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Well, if I told you that just Monday of this week that President Bush was in Greenville, South Carolina, and demonstrators were allowed to stand and demonstrate probably within 150 feet of the entranceway to the building where he was —

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor —

By Mr. Pitts: {p.1-167}

Q.  — do you think that would violate the training and the security needs of the president?

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, a couple of things here. If he can lay some kind of foundation she has any knowledge of all the factors that went into the determination of what the restricted area was in Greenville, that might start approaching a proper question.

But what happened in Greenville has nothing to do with what happened out here, Your Honor. What happened in Greenville — was it yesterday did you say, Mr. Pitts?

Mr. Pitts:  Monday.

Mr. Barton:  Monday. It has nothing to do with what happened in October of 2002 here at the Columbia Metropolitan Airport. He’s just going way far afield, Your Honor.

Mr. Pitts:  May I be heard briefly? I think —

The Court:  Are you familiar with that language in that manual?

The Witness:  Yes.

The Court:  All right. In your experience as an agent and your knowledge of this manual, was the setting up of the perimeter, number one, in compliance with whatever directives you receive from that part of the manual, that’s question number one, and if so, what are the reasons that you think why the — where the perimeter was set up on that date is in compliance with that language? {p.1-168}

The Witness:  Yes, it’s in compliance with the manual and the — the restricted area, the perimeters, like I said, are determined based on different security measures, such as line of sight, different security issues as far as location of vehicles that may contain truck bombs.

There are a lot of different issues involved. And we don’t designate the demonstration area, that’s designated by the local law enforcement. Everywhere. I’m in New York, and the first question you ask the policemen —

The Court:  All right, then, that language as read to you by counsel — and I don’t want to mischaracterize it, he may need to read it again — but is to the effect that demonstrators are to be treated just like any other member of the general public?

The Witness:  Yes.

The Court:  All right. Now, how was what the Secret Service did that day with respect to setting up this zone in compliance with that, as far as treating demonstrators the same as any other member of the general public?

The Witness:  The demonstrators were there obviously to demonstrate, so they go to the area that is designated for them. Just as the ticket holders are coming there to enter the event, so I wouldn’t direct them to go to a different location, because they would be asked to leave there. I directed them to go to the line, to stand in line. {p.1-169}

The Court:  What if you just had members of the general public there?

The Witness:  No, they are not — the general public would — they were not allowed just to hang out, they had to have a function, a reason to be there. And based on that reason for them being there, that’s the location they were told to go to.

Mr. Barton:  If Your Honor please, and I’m certainly not going to object to your question, but I believe the language there is that unless there is some known threat, the Secret Service will not initiate any effort to segregate demonstrators, not that they will treat demonstrators like everybody else. Unless there is some known threat, they will not initiate any effort to segregate. I think there is a distinction there.

The Court:  Let me see it.

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  What is the area that you were pointing to?

Mr. Pitts:  It’s on 7. And it’s indented paragraphs 1 and 2, I believe, Your Honor.

The Court:  “Following is the summary of the Secret Service policy concerning demonstrations;” is that right?

Mr. Pitts:  I think, but I can’t —

The Court:  It starts, “In the absence of specific {p.1-170} facts”?

Mr. Pitts:  Yes.

The Court:  Just the first paragraph or the whole thing?

Mr. Pitts:  The first two, I believe, are the ones that I had read already.

The Court:  “In the absence of specific fact or observable actions which would indicate a demonstration may pose a risk to a Secret Service protectee, protected facility, foreign mission, or to the public safety, demonstrators are to be treated as members of the general public.” That’s what I said.

“Secret service personnel should not initiate any action to segregate demonstration activity from public areas.” Now, of course, her testimony is this was not a public area.

“Only in cases where the Secret Service has information that a demonstration poses a potential risk to a Secret Service protectee, protected facility, foreign missions, or to the public safety should Secret Service personnel initiate and participate in discussions with the demonstration group or suggest that the group be segregated from the general public area.”

Now, again, her testimony is that this was not a general public area.

“Any meeting or contact with the demonstration {p.1-171} organizers should include local law enforcement authorities.” That’s what that section of the manual says.

Mr. Pitts:  Thank you, Judge.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Able, isn’t it true that the general public is allowed to get closer to the site of the president’s visit in some instances than in others?

Mr. Barton:  Again, Your Honor, I’m objecting to the relevance of what happens in some instances.

The Court:  Well, that’s a question she can answer of her own knowledge. I will allow it.

Mr. Barton:  That’s not my objection, it’s a relevance objection, Your Honor.

The Court:  I will allow it.

A.  At this site?

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  No. I’m asking you in general, from your work in the Secret Service and handling the number of presidential visits and security assignments you have had, isn’t it true that in some of the presidential visits the general public is allowed to get closer to the site of the president’s visit than in other locations?

A.  It depends on the restricted area, the boundaries of the restricted area.

Q.  That’s right. And who decides the boundaries of the {p.1-172} restricted area?

A.  The people that have come there to determine, like I said, line of sight, the different security issues. Every site is different. There is no set saying it’s always going to be 100 yards.

Q.  I understand that. And if the people who are making that decision fail to take into consideration the needs of the general public, which might include within it demonstrators to get as close as reasonably possible without intruding on the security, if they don’t consider that issue, then there could be an overly restricted secure zone that would violate First Amendment rights; isn’t that right?

A.  They are not — they are not going to do anything that is overzealous, first off, because they are going to do what is required to ensure the safety of the protectee. They are not going to do something that, you know, is unreasonable as far as the perimeters. And to be honest, the reason is, we don’t have the manpower.

Q.  And I believe you testified that you began that morning working with Lieutenant Baker from SLED?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And during that morning work with her, did she advise you that SLED had been contacted by Mr. Bursey who said that he was planning to be at the area to demonstrate?

A.  She didn’t — I wasn’t aware of that until he appeared at {p.1-173} the site.

Q.  And did you know that he had made a request to meet with the authorities to work out an area that was agreeable to the security people, as well as to the citizens who wanted to exercise their rights?

A.  Like I said before, Mr. Bursey appeared, his name never came up in conversation. I had no knowledge of Mr. Bursey until he appeared.

Mr. Pitts:  Just a minute, Your Honor.

I have a few more questions, Your Honor.

The Court:  Go ahead.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Able, it is true that a person could have been in line outside the hanger there without a ticket, isn’t that true? Because you told us that the officers, you don’t know if they were requiring them to show a ticket or just asking if they had it?

A.  Correct. If a person didn’t tell the truth, they lied to the officer, then they could have not — like I said, I don’t know that they had to show it to them or not.

Q.  All right. Now, when you were standing on the north side of Airport Boulevard where Mr. Bursey was at this second location, not the first location, on the north side of Airport Boulevard with other people, and was being told he needed to, leave or these options, at that point in time there were other {p.1-174} people standing on the south side of Airport Boulevard waiting in line, were there not?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And in fact Mr. Bursey had asked you, did he not, why was he being arrested when these other folks were standing over there even closer to the hanger than he was? Do you remember him asking you that?

A.  Well, I told him, I said, “They have tickets —”

Q.  Do you remember him asking you that?

A.  Well, I didn’t arrest him initially. I gave him the option.

Q.  Do you remember him asking you about people who were over there on the hanger side of Airport Boulevard at that time?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Okay. And there were in fact people who were stretched in line, were there not, all the way back from Doolittle Hanger back up into around the very same intersection where he was, was there not?

A.  Until it was shut down. Once it was shut down, those people were not there. And they had tickets.

Q.  But at the time you were telling Mr. Bursey and his friends he had to leave, those other people were standing right out there, were they not?

A.  Because they had tickets. He could do the same if he had a ticket. {p.1-175}

Q.  Well, you just told him — you don’t know if those people had tickets or not, do you?

A.  They — I guess Mr. Bursey could have lied to the police officer and said he had a ticket too.

Q.  You didn’t know because you hadn’t done a check of the people that were standing out here in line, had you?

A.  A physical check of seeing their ticket?

Q.  They didn’t show you the ticket?

A.  No, that was not my job. It was the local law enforcement.

Q.  And approximately how many people would you say were lined up here south of Airport Boulevard, waiting outside and around the area of Doolittle Hanger?

A.  I have no — I couldn’t —

Q.  Is a fair number 50? Is that reasonable?

A.  50 or less, yeah.

Q.  50 or less. Okay. Well, the photograph that Mr. Barton showed you indicating a look at this strip, this grassy strip in here, there are no signs in the ground in those photographs, were there?

A.  No.

Q.  Okay. On that day, October 24th, this strip here that is south of Airport Boulevard was filled with political signs in the ground, was there not, supporting candidate?

A.  To be honest, I don’t remember seeing any signs.

Q.  As you are roving around in all of these 4,000 people that {p.1-176} came in, and you were there since 7:30, you saw a number of those people carrying signs, did you not?

A.  I didn’t see anybody carrying a sign. I saw a lot of people wearing buttons. But as far as carrying a sign, no, I don’t recall seeing that.

Q.  And you don’t recall the signs posted in the ground?

A.  I don’t recall, but — I just — I don’t remember seeing them.

Q.  I’m sorry, I think I interrupted you. When Mr. Bursey asked you why he was being arrested and the other 50 or some-little-less were allowed to be over there, and I think you were wanting to say something and I cut you off, I’m sorry.

A.  Because he was in a restricted area. And if he had a ticket, he could get in the line. Or if he planned to demonstrate, he should go to the demonstration area. He couldn’t just hang out there. And he refused any of those options, that was why he was being arrested. I would have arrested anybody else. Like I said, if it was 10 year old little girl and she gave me the same answer, I would have arrested her.

Q.  Now, at that very point though the area had not been closed down, had it?

A.  You mean completely shut down, as far as —

Q.  We are having a hard time keeping a distinction between restricted, closed, completely shut down and secure? {p.1-177}

A.  All right.

Q.  So, what was the term that was in effect when you were — when you first — let’s roll back now. According to your direct testimony it could have been 25 minutes earlier when you approached Mr. Bursey when he was on the south side of Airport Boulevard. What was the status of that area at that point?

A.  It was restricted. It was still the same options. It was just once it became shut down, we were a little — we needed to get everybody out of there, period, unless you were law enforcement.

Q.  Your first encounter south of Airport Boulevard, he was given those same options, according to your testimony?

A.  Correct. And if he could go find the ticket, if he had access to a ticket — I don’t know how people got tickets to get in line. But I gave him that option, if he could get a ticket he was welcome to stay, go get in line.

Q.  But the condition at that point of your first encounter with him, as I understand your testimony, was what you call restricted, correct?

A.  Correct.

Q.  All right. And then he moved across the way, further away from the hanger to a point number two, did he not?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And you gave him the exact same choices at that point, did you not? {p.1-178}

A.  Correct.

Q.  And what was the condition of that area at that point?

A.  For some time it was still restricted. Until probably about 10 minutes prior to the president’s arrival, then it became completely shut down. That means there were no — the ticket holders, if they weren’t inside the building, then they had to leave and go home.

Q.  And how did you get the word to close it down?

A.  You mean as far as my instructions or relaying it to others?

Q.  Well, how did you know when it shifted from just restricted to closed down?

A.  I don’t recall if it — the transmission was told over the radio or if another agent physically walked up to me and told me.

Q.  So, you are saying that was not a decision you made but somebody else made?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And it was passed to you?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And you don’t know who made that decision?

A.  No. It would have been either the site agent or the motorcade agent, but I don’t recall which one it was.

Q.  And what time was that?

A.  I don’t recall the exact time. It would have been just — {p.1-179} from past experience, it would have been approximately 10 minutes prior to the arrival of the president.

Q.  Okay. And when the president arrived and was — and he had entered into the building, what was the status of that area at that point?

A.  Once he’s secure inside the building, then you can open up that area again. It’s still considered restricted, but we will allow vehicles to pass through as far as if somebody has to make a plane, if somebody has a destination, there’s — people are still going to be questioned as they pass through that area, what — you know, what their intentions are, where they are going. They are not just going to be allowed to hang out in that area.

It’s still considered restricted, but as far as being shut down — when I say shut down, no vehicles, no pedestrian traffic, nothing.

Q.  So, if Mr. Bursey had left the restricted area and waited 10 or 15 minutes until the president was inside, would he have been able to walk back to that very same spot and stand there with his signs?

A.  No. No one was allowed to hang — whether he had signs or not, he couldn’t just stand there and hang out on that. He could pass through there to get in line prior to the arrival, he could pass through there to go to his car, pass through there if he had to go to the airport. But nobody, regardless {p.1-180} of whether they had a sign or not, was allowed to just hang out there on that — on that corner. Or any of that restricted area.

Q.  But in the time when the president was in the hanger, a vehicle could have turned off of Highway 301 on to Airport Boulevard and ridden through there, correct?

A.  Correct, because it’s still — it’s still restricted, in that restricted time frame. The shut down is only 10 minutes prior to arrival and prior to departure. At that point nobody is allowed through there, unless you are law enforcement, no vehicles or pedestrian traffic. Then it becomes — once he’s secure inside the hanger, then it becomes just the restricted area again, it’s not shut down.

Q.  So, in any of your briefings for this event, October 24th, did anybody raise a concern, a security concern about when you opened it up again, or only restricted it, that a car containing explosive materials could come right down Airport Boulevard and ram into the hanger? Was that ever raised? That’s my question.

A.  No, but a car would not be allowed to stop and do that.

Q.  But if it was moving from 301 and kept coming down the road, and at the very last minute right in front of the hanger accelerated and veered right into it, did anybody raise that that might create a security risk more than Mr. Brett Bursey standing over on the knoll with his signs? {p.1-181}

A.  Obviously you don’t understand our security, that —

Q.  You are right.

A.  — that would not help — that would not happen.

Q.  What would prevent it from happening?

A.  The security measures that we have in place.

Q.  Which are what? There was — vehicular traffic was allowed on Airport Boulevard while the president was inside the hanger.

A.  I don’t know that I should go into all our security measures as to what would happen. But believe me, it wouldn’t happen.

If a car is stopped on the side of the road or in any way looks suspicious, it would be questioned. If it’s not within the flow of traffic, yes, it will be questioned.

Q.  But a car bomb —

A.  If it took an aggressive measure, believe me, it would be stopped.

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, objection.

The Court:  Sustained.

Mr. Barton:  Thank you.

The Court:  Mr. Bursey wasn’t in a car. Let’s move on to Mr. Bursey.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Who determined that Mr. Bursey should be arrested?

A.  I guess himself. He made that decision. I gave him every other option. I mean, that was the last resort. {p.1-182}

Q.  Who made the decision to have Mr. Bursey arrested?

A.  Mr. Bursey did. He said, “I want to be arrested. I want to go to jail.”

Q.  What did he charge himself with?

Mr. Barton:  That’s two different questions, Your Honor. Who arrested him, that’s one thing. But who made the decision, I mean, I —

The Court:  Who was the law enforcement officer or personnel that made a decision to effect the arrest?

The Witness:  That arrested him? Airport police arrested him.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  And did you direct airport police to make that arrest?

A.  I notified Lexington County — well, the Lexington County police officer was present the entire time. He radioed the airport police, they responded. I explained to them the circumstances. And it’s their ground, it was their decision what to do as far as removing him, arresting him.

Q.  But the truth is you requested, did you not, the airport police to arrest Mr. Bursey?

A.  I requested —

Q.  That’s what happened.

A.  — the airport police to respond. I can’t tell the airport police what to do.

Q.  Well, I’m not using the word “tell” or “instruct” or {p.1-183} “order,” but you requested that Mr. Bursey be arrested; isn’t that true?

A.  I requested he be removed from the restricted area. How the airport police does it, I don’t have the authority to tell them what to do.

Q.  And, Agent Able, do you remember preparing a written statement, writing up this matter?

A.  As far as what happened?

Q.  Yes, ma’am.

A.  Yes.

Q.  And do you remember writing in the last sentence, quote, “Brett Bursey was placed under arrest by the Columbia, South Carolina Metropolitan Airport Police Department in violation of trespassing an area deemed restricted by the United States Secret Service,” do you remember making that sentence?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And there is no such offense as trespassing an area — there is no such thing as a state offense of trespassing an area deemed restricted by Secret Service, is there?

A.  I — I don’t know. I don’t understand what you are asking me.

Q.  Well, it sounds like your statement is asserting that he was arrested for violating — or trespassing — a state trespass because he was in a restricted Secret Service area. Do you know of any South Carolina statute that reads that way? {p.1-184}

A.  That includes the Secret Service?

Q.  Yes, ma’am.

A.  No.

Q.  Did you have any prior discussions as part of the planning as to what statutes might be used if somebody was arrested out there that didn’t leave the restricted area?

A.  No, it was airport police’s jurisdiction. But we had — that area was being restricted by the Secret Service, and they knew that. But as far as removing him from the grounds, that — that was how they went about doing it. That was up to the airport police.

Q.  Mr. Bursey at that roadway was on public property, was he not?

A.  On the roadway?

Q.  Yes. On the right-of-way of the road, that’s public property, is it not?

A.  But it’s still a restricted area.

Q.  So, that sounds like that’s a federal offense, correct? A federal violation, is that what you are asserting?

A.  As far as us deeming it a restricted area, yeah, that would be —

Q.  But he wasn’t arrested for that, though, was he?

A.  No.

Q.  And he was only arrested five months later for that, correct? {p.1-185}

A.  As far as the time frame, I’m not sure of the time frame.

Q.  And did Agent Lee consult with you some time in the year 2003 about the events that took place on October 24th and the possibility of charging Mr. Bursey with a federal crime?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And did he tell you that the state charge of trespass had been dismissed?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And did you prepare a statement in response to his request to you?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Had you prepared a statement prior to that?

A.  Like right after the visit or —

Q.  Yes.

A.  No.

Q.  There’s no Secret Service policy that when you participate in a situation that leads to a citizen being arrested, that you develop or turn in or type up your field notes?

A.  No.

Q.  And there’s no memorandum generated by you from that?

A.  No.

Q.  Let me show you — let me show what I have marked as Defendant’s Exhibit 5 and ask you if you recognize that document?

A.  Yes. {p.1-186}

Q.  What is that?

A.  That’s the statement that I typed up that Agent Lee asked me to.

Mr. Pitts:  Move introduction of Defendant’s 5.

Mr. Barton:  No objection, Your Honor.

The Court:  Without objection.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  And there’s no signature on the one you have in front of you, did you actually sign that document at some point for Agent Lee or somebody else?

A.  Yes.

Q.  So, as far as you can tell that’s the same statement, it’s just not signed?

A.  Correct.

Q.  And do you remember when you prepared that? It doesn’t have a date on it either.

A.  No, I don’t remember.

Q.  Okay. Let me ask you to look at the third paragraph there that begins, “At the direction of”?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  Would you read that, please?

A.  “At the direction of the Columbia, South Carolina Metropolitan Airport Police Department and myself, Special Agent Able, Bursey and the three individuals were advised to leave the restricted area, wait in line with the general public {p.1-187} to enter the event, if they were in possession of a ticket and discarded their signs with sticks, or be arrested for remaining in the restricted area.

“Three of the individuals complied and left the restricted area as directed. Brett Bursey stated he refused to leave the restricted area.”

Q.  What does the first line mean, “At the direction of the Metropolitan Department and myself”? Are you saying that the police directed that Mr. Bursey be confronted? I just wasn’t sure what you wrote —

A.  No. When the Metropolitan — the airport police arrived, they — I explained to them, you know, what had occurred. And they, once again, told Mr. Bursey the same thing. “You know, you need to leave or you need to go to the demonstration area.” They didn’t just arrest him immediately, they talked to him and explained the same thing.

And that’s what I was — I was trying to reiterate there that they, and myself, had also advised him to leave the restricted area.

Q.  And I notice in your statement that we are looking at here doesn’t mention anything about your initial encounter with Mr. Bursey on the hanger side of Airport Boulevard?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  It doesn’t mention anything about his willingness to cooperate and move further away? {p.1-188}

A.  No. When he moved further away, it wasn’t a willingness to cooperate. He was just going to a different location.

Q.  Well, he was moving further away, trying to remove himself from a secured or a restricted area, was he not?

A.  No, he had already been told what the restricted area — that he was in the restricted area.

Q.  And I don’t believe you told us that he was given any definitive boundaries of that area?

A.  He knew where he was to go —

Q.  How would he know that?

A.  I was telling him. I told him he had to leave this area, it was a restricted area.

Q.  I understand that. But to get out of the restricted area, you have to know where the restricted area ends and where the general public area begins. You didn’t define that for him, did you?

A.  As far as the measurements?

Q.  Yes.

A.  I don’t know — I don’t recall if I told him exactly 100 yards.

Q.  Well, but you didn’t tell him exactly anything?

A.  I told — if he planned — he planned to demonstrate, he made that clear to us. If he wanted to demonstrate, he needed to go to the demonstration area. If he wanted to go in the event, he needed to get in line. But he couldn’t just hang out {p.1-189} in that area.

Q.  I understand. And that was — that pretty much was the clear message, that if he wanted to demonstrate he had one place he could go to and that was the 302 and Airport Boulevard demonstration area; is that correct?

A.  Yeah.

Mr. Pitts:  No other questions.

The Court:  Redirect?

Mr. Barton:  Yes, Your Honor.

Redirect Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  When you were discussing or having these conversations with Mr. Bursey, did he ever indicate a willingness to leave and go anywhere?

A.  No. Other than to jail.

Q.  Did he tell you whether or not he had a ticket for the event?

A.  He told me he did not have a ticket.

Q.  And these individuals that Mr. Pitts was asking about earlier who were lined up along here the same time Mr. Bursey was here, do you remember that —

A.  Yeah.

Q.  — those questions? Were those individuals allowed to remain there?

A.  Only if they had tickets, and they were flowing into the {p.1-190} event.

Q.  Where did they go?

A.  They — they were in the line going into the Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  And so they may have been here for a while, is that correct, but then they walked into the hanger?

A.  Correct.

Q.  Was anybody, any ticket holder or otherwise, allowed just to remain out here?

A.  No.

Mr. Barton:  That’s all I have, Your Honor.

The Court:  Thank you, ma’am, you may step down.

The Witness:  Here is your exhibit.

The Court:  That you. Do y’all need a break or do you want to go on to the next witness?

Mr. Barton:  I need a break.

The Court:  All right, it’s 3:20, we will take a break until 3:30. Be right back.

(Short recess)

The Court:  Mr. Barton, how many more witnesses do you have?

Mr. Barton:  I have two, Your Honor. I’m hoping — and a lot depends obviously here — but I will certainly finish today and maybe by 4:30, 5 o’clock.

The Court:  Well, we are not finishing the case {p.1-191} today, obviously.

Mr. Barton:  No, no.

Mr. Wise:  That was delusional thinking.

The Court:  As I recall, you are the one that mentioned it.

Mr. Wise:  Well, for me to be delusional —

The Court:  We all looked askance at you when you said that to begin with.

All right, call your next witness.

Mr. Barton:  Tamara Baker.

The Clerk:  Please place your left hand on the Bible and raise your right hand. Please state your full name for the record.

The Witness:  Tamara Butler Baker.

Tamara Butler Baker, Sworn

Direct Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Would you tell the court who you are employed by, please, ma’am?

A.  I am employed by the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division.

Q.  And how long have you been — in what capacity are you employed?

A.  I am a lieutenant, a supervisory special agent.

Q.  How long have you been employed with them? {p.1-192}

A.  20 years.

Q.  And briefly, what are some of the positions and duties and responsibilities you have had in 20 years at SLED?

A.  I started out in the chemistry lab as an administrative assistant, and got promoted to an investigative support specialist. And from there was made an agent in 1995, and promoted to lieutenant three years later.

Q.  Okay. Is one of your duties at SLED to assist the United States Secret Service when the president of the United States visits South Carolina?

A.  Yes, sir. I am currently and for the last three years have been in the protective services, in the emergency management unit. And part of my duties in that unit is to act as liaison with the Secret Service.

Q.  And how long have you had that responsibility?

A.  For three years.

Q.  Okay. How many visits have you assisted — the visits of the president to South Carolina, have you assisted the Secret Service on?

A.  In all, any visits that the Secret Service are involved in security, is approximately 12. I’m not sure of the number for just the president.

Q.  And what are your duties in the — what do you do to help the Secret Service?

A.  I actually put together SLED’s operational plan for our {p.1-193} assistance in assisting the Secret Service.

Q.  And in just general terms, what does that operational plan include?

A.  Depending on what event is going on and what the local police can provide, we actually assist with either ID teams and other assets that SLED has, and any manpower that they would need or that the locals could not provide, then we would fill in for them on that.

Q.  And does that vary from visit to visit?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Did you assist the Secret Service on the president’s visit on October 24th, 2002?

A.  Yes, sir, I did.

Q.  Did you attend law enforcement briefings?

A.  Yes, sir, I did.

Q.  What was your function to be for that particular visit? I’m only talking about that particular visit right now, what was your function?

A.  In addition to planning all of SLED’s response and coordinating that, I was assigned as an ID team at the Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  Were you paired with anyone?

A.  Yes, sir, I was.

Q.  Who was that?

A.  That was Agent Holly Able with the Secret Service. {p.1-194}

Q.  And when you say an ID team, what is your understanding of what y’all — what does ID stand for?

A.  It’s an intelligence detail. That’s basically —

Q.  What do you do?

A.  We — we are assigned to a site. There are several ID teams, it depends on what the Secret Service requests. But we usually provide an agent to be paired with the Secret Service agent.

And we actually — if anyone — if anything was to happen that would threaten the president, then we would look into it and, you know, remove the threat from the area, and talk with the person, that type thing.

Q.  On this particular visit were you aware of a threat involving an individual who hadn’t been apprehended?

A.  Yes, sir, I was.

Q.  Could you tell the court as an example of what you are looking out for, what that was about?

A.  There was an individual that had jumped in a mail carrier’s van and —

Q.  When did that happen?

A.  When?

Q.  Yes.

A.  Early that morning, around — and I’m not sure about the time —

Q.  The morning of the 24th when the president — {p.1-195}

A.  Yes, sir. Yes, sir, that morning. I had reported —

Mr. Pitts:  I object unless there’s some relevance to the event before this court.

The Court:  Has this got anything to do with that?

Mr. Barton:  For your edification only, Your Honor.

The Court:  I don’t need to be edified.

Mr. Barton:  We will move on.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Don’t worry about that threat.

You were paired with Agent Holly Able at the Doolittle Hangar; is that correct?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  Did you know Agent Able before this event?

A.  No, I did not know her before this event.

Q.  Okay. What time did you arrive at the Doolittle Hanger?

A.  At approximately 7:30 a.m.

Q.  And what did you and Agent Able do? Beginning at 7:30, what were y’all doing?

A.  We walked around the site to familiarize ourselves with the area. She had not been there. I had already done an advance there, so I kind of showed her around.

And shortly thereafter the public started arriving. And we had had notification about this individual from Lancaster, so we were actually on the lookout for him. We were waiting on a fax to come in with a picture. {p.1-196}

Q.  Okay.

A.  And so we, you know, surveyed the crowd to make sure that he’s not actually there, or we don’t see anybody else that we know that may be a threat.

Q.  That morning did you see Brett Bursey?

A.  Yes, sir, I did.

Q.  Did you know him or know who he was?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Did you recognize him when he appeared on the scene?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Tell the court, if you would, how you — what was going on when you first saw Brett Bursey.

A.  Okay. The public was in a line that went around the hanger. And Agent Able and I were at the corner of the — of the building looking at the crowd as they were coming in.

Q.  Do you want to point out on that diagram, if you would, where you were?

A.  We were approximately right here, watching the crowd as they came into where the mags were on this side.

The Court:  Pointing to the top left hand corner of the Doolittle Hangar.

The Witness:  Excuse me?

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  That’s okay, he was just identifying where you pointed for the record. {p.1-197}

And where was Mr. Bursey when you saw him?

A.  Okay. He came up right here. And Agent Able at the time —

Q.  And you are talking about the grassy area between Doolittle Hanger and Airport Boulevard —

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  — on the far left-hand side of the intersection?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Okay. And what did you see?

A.  I was actually watching the crowd. And Agent Able said, you know, “Who is this guy? What’s he doing?” And I looked over and noticed that I saw a gentleman with the signs and a megaphone, or a bull horn, and he actually came up and dropped them on the ground right where I just pointed out. And he — and I looked at him and I recognized it to be Mr. Bursey.

Q.  And do you see him in the courtroom?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Would you point him out?

A.  The defendant.

Q.  Which one?

A.  Oh, the one in the middle.

Mr. Barton:  Let the record reflect she has identified the defendant.

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  So, what did you and Agent Able do? {p.1-198}

A.  We walked over to speak with him.

Q.  Okay. And did you have a conversation with him?

A.  Yes, sir, we did.

Q.  And would you relate that conversation?

A.  We asked Mr. Bursey what he was doing, and he said he was demonstrating his free speech.

Q.  Okay. And what was he told?

A.  We told him that he was in a secure or restricted area and that he would need to leave. And he —

Q.  Did you or Agent Able identify yourselves?

A.  Oh, certainly. Yes, we did.

Q.  Okay.

A.  Agent Able identified herself as a Secret Service agent. And when — when she told him he couldn’t be there, he said that SLED had told him he could be there.

Q.  Had you identified yourself as a SLED agent?

A.  I identified myself then as, you know, Lieutenant Tamara Baker. And I told him that I worked with SLED and I asked who at SLED told him he could be there. He told me Major Matt Weaver.

And I told him that I had had — I also had a conversation with Major Weaver. And according to what I had heard from Major Weaver, I did not — that was not what Major Weaver told him.

Q.  Okay. Did he challenge you on that? Did he dispute that? {p.1-199}

A.  No, he didn’t.

Q.  Did you have any other conversations with him? I mean, what was he told —

A.  He was told to leave that area since it was a restricted area. And he was very belligerent and did not want to leave the area. And, you know, a lot of conversation went back and forth for several minutes.

Q.  The megaphone, did he ever pick up the megaphone or bull horn —

A.  No, sir.

Q.  Okay. Did he remain there the entire time? Do you recall if he went anywhere from there?

A.  When — when we asked — he finally decided he would leave. So, he picked up his signs and his megaphone and he crossed the street to the other side. And Agent Able and I were —

Q.  Now, when you say “crossed the street to the other side,” would you point out on the diagram, Government’s Exhibit Number 1 —

A.  Okay. He picked up his signs and he crossed the road over to this area here where the stop sign is.

Q.  Diagonally across from the area you indicated previously?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Okay. What did you and — where were you and Agent Able at that time? {p.1-200}

A.  We were still over on this area watching — still watching the crowd as they went in, because the other individual had not been apprehended yet.

Q.  Okay. The other individual you were concerned about?

A.  From Lancaster, yes, sir.

Q.  Did you observe — did you observe Mr. Bursey on that other corner?

A.  Yes, sir, because he walked over to the other corner and he threw his signs and megaphones down there.

Q.  Okay.

A.  Or megaphone.

Q.  What did you and Agent Able do?

A.  We walked over there to talk with him again and tell him that he could not stay in that area either.

Q.  And did you tell him why he could not stay in that area?

A.  Yes, sir, we told him it was a secured area and he could not — he could not be in that area.

Q.  Okay. Did he ever indicate to you whether or not he had a ticket to attend the event?

A.  Yes. At one point during the conversation he asked about the public that was in line. And he said, “Well, you know, well, you are letting them be here.” And we said, “Well, they have got a ticket. You know, you are more than welcome to go over and get in line.”

And at one point in time I thought I remembered him {p.1-201} going over and actually standing in line with some of the people. He actually broke in front of other people and stood with them.

Q.  But he indicated —

A.  But he had already told us he didn’t have a ticket, so, you know —

Q.  But did he get back out of the line and —

A.  Yeah, he came back out of line and just — it was a constant conversation with him. And Agent Able told him that he would need to leave — he had several options, he would either need to leave the area, he could get in line and go inside, or he could be arrested.

Q.  Was he told he had to have a ticket to go inside?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Okay. What was his response to these options he was given?

A.  He — well, at one time he said he was waiting on some friends to come visit — to come meet him there. And I think that was before Agent Able gave him the options of what I just mentioned.

Q.  Did anybody join him out there?

A.  And then we had several people join him.

Q.  Do you recall how many?

A.  Approximately five.

Q.  Okay.

A.  That I knew of. {p.1-202}

Q.  And where did they gather?

A.  Well, a woman walked up, I don’t remember from where, to where the stop sign was.

Q.  You are going to have to point that out on the diagram.

A.  Okay. One woman walked up right here. We had two gentlemen that walked up from this way to here. And then a burgundy car that drove in to turn I guess to go park, and it had two individuals in there. I’m not sure of —

Q.  So, as I understand your testimony, a woman walked up Lexington Avenue toward the intersection?

A.  Yes.

Q.  To that stop sign on the corner diagonally across from where you first saw Mr. Bursey?

A.  That is correct.

Q.  Two — did you say two men?

A.  Two white males came this way, and she was a black female.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And two white males came from — from the airport.

Q.  On Airport —

A.  On Airport Boulevard. And showed up at the stop sign where Mr. Bursey was.

Q.  And the burgundy car came from what direction?

A.  It came from the main highway at 302 down Airport Boulevard and turned right on Lexington Avenue.

Q.  Did it keep going down Lexington Avenue? {p.1-203}

A.  No, it stopped right here.

Q.  Okay. What happened after these individuals arrived?

A.  They all had conversations with Mr. Bursey.

Q.  What happened with the car, was it allowed to park there or stay there?

A.  Lexington — the Lexington County deputy was trying to get them to move, but Mr. Bursey was — they were all having conversations at the time. It’s kind of hard to tell which one — what all occurred at the same time. But he had told all his — he evidently knew these people he was talking to and telling them that he was going to be arrested, and did they want to be arrested with him. And if they didn’t want to be arrested, then he was going to put his signs in the car.

So, that’s why they had the car there, they ended up putting the signs there. There was a lot of conversation back and forth about who was going to get his car and meet him at the jail.

And the black female, I’m not sure what her name was, but she was on the phone calling different people to see if they would support her if she was arrested. It just went back and forth like that a lot.

Q.  At what point in time did this come to an end and how did it come to an end?

A.  Everyone but Mr. Bursey decided that they did not want to be arrested, and Mr. Bursey decided he wanted to be arrested, {p.1-204} and he would not leave the area.

Q.  Okay. Did — was there ever any discussion about a demonstration area?

A.  Yes, sir. When Agent Able and I first approached him at the grassy area between the hanger’s parking lot and the Airport Boulevard, we actually told him that there was a demonstration area at the entrance of Airport Boulevard at the corner of 302 and Airport Boulevard. And he did not want to go there.

Q.  How do you know that?

A.  He told us that.

Q.  Okay. At any point in time during any of your conversations you had with Mr. Bursey on October 24th, 2002, did he indicate a willingness to leave that area and go anywhere else?

A.  No, sir. He did not want to leave the area.

Q.  And describe this arrest.

A.  Agent Able asked for Lexington County to call one of the airport police officers to the site to arrest Mr. Bursey. And there were several minutes involved in waiting on one of the airport police officers to get there to effect the arrest. And a Lexington County van came to actually transport Mr. Bursey.

Q.  Okay. When the airport police officer arrived, was there any conversation between Agent Able and the airport police officer? {p.1-205}

A.  Yes, sir, there was.

Q.  What did she relate to him?

A.  She actually told him what had happened and that Mr. Bursey would not leave the area, meaning the secure area, the restricted area. And, you know, based on that, could he make an arrest.

Q.  And did the airport police officer have any conversation with Mr. Bursey?

A.  Yes. And he was subsequently arrested.

Q.  What was the conversation between those two?

A.  I didn’t — I didn’t hear that.

Q.  What was the crowd doing? Was there a crowd still out there at this time?

A.  The crowd was still there, one — our attention was basically on Mr. Bursey. And there were several other agents — we don’t have a post, we actually are a roving post.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And the crowd had actually been moved out of the area. Can I show you on the map?

Q.  Surely. Please.

A.  The entrance to the site was here where they had — where the White House actually had a mag set up. So, the crowd was a long line. The crowd actually went this way, all the way down here. And they were walking this way from where they were parking at the college parking lot. {p.1-206}

The crowd — because it was just about time by that time for the president to — oh, thank you.

Q.  Sure.

A.  — to land — had actually been moved back or cut in two, and so that they did not have a line of sight here. So, they were moved up this way and back on this way. So, the crowd was here and here.

Q.  Okay. After —

A.  Excuse me, when the arrest was happening, that was right here.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And the crowd was back here.

Q.  You are describing the corner adjacent to the corner that you first saw Mr. Bursey on?

A.  Yes.

The Court:  I thought Mr. Bursey was across, diagonally?

The Witness:  He was. But by that time, when he decided to be arrested, he was moved over here for the arrest to be effected.

The Court:  So, y’all actually moved him across the street?

The Witness:  He came across the street with us, yes, sir. He came across with us.

By Mr. Barton: {p.1-207}

Q.  Is that where the van was parked that you indicated?

A.  The van was parked here, yes.

Q.  After Mr. Bursey left, how much longer before the president arrived at Doolittle Hanger? Do you recall?

A.  After he was arrested and left the area?

Q.  After he left the area.

A.  Okay.

Q.  As best you can recall.

A.  Probably within minutes. Probably two to 10 minutes.

Q.  What did you do while the president was in Doolittle Hanger? What was your responsibilities then?

A.  We actually went into the hanger and circulated through the crowd.

Q.  And were you with Agent Able this entire time?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Okay. When the president was leaving Doolittle Hangar, what did you do?

A.  We actually — we went back outside to make sure that the perimeter — well, the — the restricted area was again secure and that there were no issues that we needed to take care of. We actually did that prior to his departure.

Q.  Okay. After the president left Doolittle Hanger and left the airport property, what did you do?

A.  I got in my vehicle and left the area.

Q.  Did you not have any other responsibilities for his {p.1-208} departure when he left Columbia?

A.  Well, no, sir, I actually went to the Sheraton, which was another site where he was going to be.

Q.  Okay. I don’t think I will take you there.

You said when you were discussing this with Mr. Bursey on these two grassy areas, I believe your term was he was very belligerent; is that what you said?

A.  Yes, sir, he — there were several things he said over the course, I don’t remember what he said at each particular area. But he did not come there to get along with us, that was very obvious. He was not in what I refer to — or what I do refer to with my children in the get-along mode. He was not there at all —

Q.  Okay. After he was told he was going to be arrested, did his attitude change?

A.  Oh, he was — he — he said that he was — he was ready to be arrested because he had gotten arrested before and he was looking forward to it.

Mr. Barton:  Okay. Beg the court’s indulgence, Your Honor.

I don’t have any other questions. Please answer any questions that these attorneys might have.

The Witness:  Okay, thank you.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts.

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, sir, Your Honor. {p.1-209}

Cross Examination

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Lieutenant Baker, my name is Lewis Pitts.

A.  Okay.

Q.  I’m representing Mr. Bursey, and Rauch Wise is also co-counsel. I have some questions for you.

A.  Okay.

Q.  Thank you. You indicated that about a dozen times you have worked with the Secret Service security detail?

A.  Approximately, yes, sir.

Q.  And did you work the Greenville event Monday of this week?

A.  No, sir, I — my husband is also an agent, and I had other obligations because of his work.

Q.  How about back in 2002, prior to October 24th, when the president visited Charleston and Greenville; did you work those details?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And do you remember there — do you remember Mr. Bursey being there and issues of protesting at those events in 2002 in Greenville and Charleston?

A.  You said Charleston, you didn’t say Greenville?

Q.  Well, the president was at both Greenville and Charleston.

A.  I’m aware that he was at Charleston and Greenville, but which incident are you talking about?

Q.  Was Mr. Bursey at the — I think it was the March 2002 {p.1-210} event in Greenville?

A.  I don’t recall that.

Q.  Do you remember there being any issue at that Greenville appearance in 2002 by —

A.  I would —

Q.  — let me finish — by the president?

A.  I would have to look back at the file and —

Q.  Let me ask the question and we will see if you can remember the answer. Do you remember whether or not there was an issue at that event in Greenville 2002 about people being told they had to go to a protest area, but they did not go there, they went to an area that was much closer to the president’s site?

A.  No, sir, I do not remember that incident.

Q.  Do you remember that occurring at the Charleston visit by the president in 2002?

A.  No, sir, I do not.

Q.  Now, I believe you said you coordinated all of SLED’s response on October the — for the October the 24th visit?

A.  Yes, sir, I did.

Q.  And that meant that you prepared the operational plan?

A.  For SLED, yes, sir.

Q.  For SLED. And how many meetings did you have with Secret Service agents prior to October 24th to get ready to learn about how to handle the event and how to coordinate the other SLED agents? {p.1-211}

A.  I don’t recall. I know — I could tell you that I remember being at one and that was the main operational briefing. It’s called a police briefing.

Q.  How long prior to October 24 was that?

A.  Usually it occurs approximately one week before, and I don’t recall the dates.

Q.  So, fair to say this one is roughly the week prior?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Okay. And Major Weaver was at that event?

A.  No, sir, he wasn’t.

Q.  Okay. Chief Stewart was there?

A.  No, sir — or — I don’t — I don’t recall if Chief Stewart was there or not.

Q.  How about Captain Thomas?

A.  I don’t recall if Captain Thomas was there or not.

Q.  Who was there from SLED?

A.  I know I was there.

Q.  Were you maybe the only SLED representative?

A.  No, there could have been — it could have been Chief Stewart, Ben Thomas, Captain Thomas, any bomb personnel or helicopter personnel. But I wouldn’t know, I just — I don’t remember.

Q.  Okay. Just one minute.

Let me show you what is marked as Defendant’s Exhibit 6, which I believe is a statement that you prepared {p.1-212} February the 19th. Let me let you take a look at that.

A.  Okay. Yes, sir, I’m familiar with this.

Q.  And you notice in the second paragraph you say that during the planning stage you had a meeting with Chief Stewart and Captain Ben Thomas and Major Weaver. Was that a different meeting than you are describing?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  When was that meeting?

A.  Sometime after the first week’s briefing and the event on October the 24th.

Q.  So, the police briefing had Secret Service agents present?

A.  It had Secret Service agents present, local, and the advance team, and all local police entities that would have something to do with this event.

Q.  So, that was probably the big meeting where everybody locally, state and local, got briefed on what was happening and how to carry out their duties; is that fair?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And that’s the one that was roughly a week ahead?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And then after that is when you had this meeting described in your letter of February 19, which is Defendant’s 6?

A.  Yes, sir. Because we are required to brief Chief Stewart on events that are occurring.

Q.  Let’s go back to the police briefing that you were {p.1-213} describing. Do you remember who was presenting or conducting the briefing from Secret Service?

A.  No, sir, I — well, that wasn’t my briefing. Usually if it was a SLED briefing, you know, we would be the host for it. So, I would assume it was the Secret Service. You would have to ask them that, though.

Q.  You were there, I’m asking you who was in charge of that meeting from the Secret Service?

A.  Well, that was back in October of 2002, I have worked a lot of details since then, so I couldn’t tell you.

Q.  Okay. And did you have notes, did you take notes at that meeting?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  So, that was the one time that you were going to meet with the Secret Service to prepare for the president’s visit, and it was your job, was it not, to then coordinate the rest of SLED?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  And you didn’t take any notes?

A.  I don’t need to. I kind of — after I have done it for — it was two and-a-half years by that time, I know what they need and what they have asked for.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And basically it isn’t until later when they actually go through each site that I actually know what it is that they actually are requesting from us. It’s later, after the — the {p.1-214} locals — or not — if the locals are not able to provide something, then we will fill in. So, my notes would have been taken later, I didn’t take any notes at the meeting.

Q.  Okay. Was there a later meeting where you took notes?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  Was there a later meeting where you didn’t take notes to coordinate with other SLED officials?

A.  I’m not following you.

Q.  Well, were there — did it come where — did it happen that local police, sheriff’s department, airport police were not able to fulfill the assignment and SLED was asked to fulfill the assignment?

A.  Well, I’m trying to think back to what actual positions we — we actually filled on this event. And I can’t remember everybody that was there or who asked for those. I’m sorry, I just —

Q.  Well, in fact, did SLED fulfill certain staff assignments for the October 24th event?

A.  Staff assignments?

Q.  Or to staff the necessary assignments?

A.  Yes, sir, we had several assignments there.

Q.  For example, you were working that day with —

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  — with Agent Able. Were there other SLED agents working that day? {p.1-215}

A.  Yes, sir, there were.

Q.  How many?

A.  Well, we don’t give out numbers on events, because it —

The Court:  That’s fine.

The Witness:  Do you want me to tell you —

The Court:  No.

The Witness:  It’s a security issue. You just don’t let everybody know how many — you know, your manpower.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Okay. Let’s go back to what you are describing as the police briefing where you were there for SLED, was there somebody there from the Lexington County Sheriff’s Department?

A.  I would think so, yes, sir —

Q.  Well, why don’t you just list for us who was at that police briefing?

A.  I don’t have that list and I couldn’t tell you. It would be — it would be any local entity of where the president would be going, and that would be a question for the Secret Service. They actually invited the people to that meeting, I was an invitee.

Q.  Well, I understand you were there, you don’t remember if the Lexington Sheriff’s Department was represented?

A.  I couldn’t swear to it.

Q.  How about airport metropolitan police?

A.  They are usually there if he’s going to fly into the {p.1-216} Columbia Metropolitan Airport.

Q.  Well, you don’t remember if they were there at that meeting?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  Do you remember if the Secret Service agent conducting the briefing described and conveyed to the members present what would be the secure restricted area for October 24th?

A.  Not at that time, because they had not been to the site as I was aware of.

Q.  Okay. Did there come a point where the Secret Service communicated to you what would be deemed the restricted area for October 24th?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  When was that?

A.  The morning of October the 24th.

Q.  And who communicated that to you?

A.  I don’t recall at this time. There were several agents that were there, and I’m not sure which one it was.

Q.  Was it Agent Able?

A.  I honestly don’t remember.

Q.  And you testified earlier that you arrived at 7:30 and paired up with her, y’all were part of the team. Why 7:30?

A.  Well, it was the time we were told to be there.

Q.  And who told you to be there at 7:30?

A.  I don’t remember that either. {p.1-217}

Q.  And were you given a reason why 7:30 was the time?

A.  It was — it’s based on the time line of when the protectee is actually supposed to be at the event and what time the event is going to be opened to, you know, whoever is going to be attending. So, it’s based on that.

Q.  Do you know when the president was to arrive that day?

A.  Yes, sir, approximately. I hadn’t looked at the — I don’t remember exactly what time it was. I mean, it was back in October, I can’t remember exactly. I think it was around 11 or 12.

Q.  Okay. Now, let’s go back to the meeting that you had with Chief Stewart and Captain Thomas and Major Williams.

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  That was after the police briefing?

A.  It was after the police briefing with the Secret Service, yes, sir.

Q.  Okay. What was the purpose of that meeting, Lieutenant?

A.  The first purpose of that meeting, I couldn’t tell you, I don’t remember. But I was briefing the chief on several events we had going on at the same time, the president’s visit being one of those.

Q.  Okay. And you had occasion to talk with the chief and the captain about Brett Bursey, did you not?

A.  Well, Major Weaver had walked by the chief’s office, or he poked his head kind of in, and the chief had just told him to {p.1-218} come on in, and kind of told him that we were, you know, going over some events.

And so, Major Weaver just sat down and was listening.

And when we—

I briefed the chief on the president’s visit, and when it was going to occur, and what I knew that, you know, we had to provide so far at that time, Major Weaver said he had had a conversation with Mr. Bursey.

Q.  And?

A.  And—

Q.  What happened then?

A.  He told me that Mr. Bursey had told him—

Mr. Barton:  Your Honor, I think this is hearsay, hearsay from what Major Weaver is telling her in this meeting.

The Court:  It’s a statement against interest.

Mr. Pitts:  Thank you.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Tell us what you talked in that meeting about with regard to Mr. Bursey.

A.  Major Weaver just related to me that Mr. Bursey had talked with him and said that he was going to come to the event to protest.

Q.  And what did you say or do as a result of that?

A.  I told him that if Mr. Bursey talked with him again that he needed to make sure that he knew where the public, you know, the public area was going to be. {p.1-219}

Q.  And that meeting that you had with the chief, the captain, and major was prior to the 24th, correct?

A.  That is correct.

Q.  But it’s on the morning of the 24th that you learned about the boundaries of the Secret Service secure area.

Isn’t that what you have just told us?

A.  Yes, sir. The—

The public area was already— was already designated as Airport Boulevard and 302. So, you know that ahead of time. And the airport police actually said that so I knew about it.

And that’s why I told Major Weaver that. So that Mr. Bursey would know where would be, you know, good for him to go and where would be legal so he would not, you know, be in any restricted area.

Q.  I see.

So, in your statement you have in front of you in that second paragraph when you say,

“I asked Major Weaver to let Mr. Bursey know that he should go to the general public area,”

end quote, by “general public area” you are referring to the site at 302 and Airport Boulevard?

A.  Yes, sir. That’s what I’m referring to. Because it’s outside of the restricted area.

Q.  But you didn’t know what the restricted area was at that time, did you?

A.  Well, I—

No, not—

Not the entire area. I had done some walk-throughs there. But you don’t—

You don’t find out all of that until—

Or I didn’t find out all of it until the {p.1-220} morning, because I was involved in all the different sites, which was — you know.

That’s not a big deal for me.

Q.  Now, I did note that you said you have done—

I think you used the word during direct too, that had you done some “walk-throughs”—

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  —of the area.

And what area did you walk through?

And why did you do that?

A.  You are referring to Doolittle Hanger?

Q.  Well, to get ready for your duty as the SLED representative to this team.

A.  Are you talking about the morning of October the 24th?

Q.  No. When you said you had done some walk-throughs, I thought you had done walk-throughs prior to 7:30 on the 24th.

A.  Prior to 7:30 on the 24th?

No, sir, I arrived at the hanger at 7:30 on October the 24th.

Q.  I understand that. But didn’t you check out the area before the 24th as part of your duties?—

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  —Or did I just misunderstand you?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And when was that?

A.  Sometime between the initial meeting and the 24th.

Q.  All right.

What did you do on those—

I think the word you used, you had done an “advance”.

What do you mean by doing {p.1-221} an “advance”?

Tell us that.

A.  You actually walk through the areas of where the—

Where the protectee is going to be.

Q.  Do you walk through the secure area?

A.  Yes, sir, you would have to.

Q.  Okay.

But you didn’t know what the secure area was, did you?

At that point when you went and did your advance, you didn’t know what the secure area was?

A.  No, because it had not been—

It had not been designated by the Secret Service.

The Secret Service is in charge of the entire event. I’m there to assist.

So, they actually have to do their plan. They do their walk-throughs. They decide what it is going to take to protect the protectee. And then we assist them in that.

Q.  Okay.

A.  It’s not my decision.

Q.  I understand.

Now, you also were describing that the line at one point, that it formed outside of Doolittle Hanger?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And it was sort of clogging up.

And if you don’t mind, show me with the pointer again. I just wanted—

You were talking about the line being cut. And I just wasn’t sure that I understood that and what that was—

A.  The line was extremely long and—

Q.  Do you have an estimate of how many people were in this {p.1-222} extremely long line?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  100?

A.  1,000.

Q.  1,000?

A.  I’m assuming.

I can’t remember what the estimate on how many people could be in here (indicating).

I’m thinking 5,000.

Q.  I’m talking about that were outside waiting.

The Court:  He isn’t talking about total.

He’s talking about during this particular period of time.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Let’s say when you—

When did it occur with regard to the first contact with Mr. Bursey and the second contact, when was this cut in the line?

That’s what—

A.  When Mr. Bursey arrived, the line was already from here all the way — all the way back here. I’m not sure how long—

Q.  When you say “all the way back here,” let’s try to be particular with this chart.

A.  Okay.

Q.  It was to the west to some degree of the intersection of Lexington Avenue and Airport Boulevard?

A.  As best I remember it, when the line started interfering with the roadway here, they started curving the line back this way. There’s a fence and the parking lot area here, so they started the people forming a line back this way. {p.1-223}

Q.  And “back this way” means — if this is the west —

A.  Toward Eagle Aviation.

Q.  Toward Eagle Aviation?

A.  Right.

Q.  It’s toward the western left-hand side of this diagram, Government’s 1?

A.  Certainly, if that’s what this is.

Q.  And do you remember that line going back as far as this driveway as indicated?

A.  I did not walk that far back there.

Q.  But is it fair to say that you were drawing a line down this side, the western side of the intersection of Lexington and Airport, that the line had extended to the west of that line?

A.  I don’t know how far the line was at the time Mr. Bursey was here. Because we were here and watching the crowd as they passed through here to go through the mags.

Q.  Well, when you encountered Mr. Bursey on this hanger side of Airport Boulevard—

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  —where was the line?

A.  It was—

It was in this area here.

Q.  So, then, maybe we could say, because we are trying to put words to a picture here, the line was as far back as Mr. Bursey was? {p.1-224}

A.  It was past from where Mr. Bursey was.

Q.  It was past?

A.  I just don’t know how far from here to here it was.

Q.  Okay, that’s fair. All right.

And then something about it got cut. I wasn’t sure—

A.  Okay. What he had done—

Q.  Now, when you say—

Who—

A.  Agent Cohen.

Q.  Agent Cohen. Yes, ma’am?

A.  Agent Cohen, yes, sir.

He was concerned because the president was due to arrive, and the actual arrival site was here for the president.

Q.  Which is near—

A.  It’s door—

Whatever door number that is that—

Q.  The left-hand side of Doolittle?

A.  He was supposed to come in that area. Well, this is an open fenced area and the public would be able to see him arrive. And so he was moving the public so that they would not be in that area. You know, all of this is a secured area.

Q.  So, there was going to be a space between the front end, to the right-hand part of this chart, to the line, and the folks that were back here?

A.  Right. From the building where they couldn’t see this area, and then somewhere down here to where they could not see this area also. {p.1-225}

Q.  So, when the president entered here, there would be a clear area here?

A.  Right. There would be—

All of this would be a clear area, because there were vehicles here to block the line, because it’s an open area there.

Q.  All right.

A.  There are some trees but, you know, you couldn’t see through the trees.

Q.  Now, when the president was to be entering the building, was the line that was cut to be back here to the left-hand side of this intersection, to be out of the line of sight?

A.  When the president was what?

Q.  To be entering the doorway of the hanger.

A.  I’m not following you.

Q.  Well, I still don’t understand what it accomplished to cut the line, push some back here?

A.  When the president is coming in here, you can’t have anybody in the — where they can see him. It’s a security issue. It’s for his protection.

Q.  Line of sight? You mean they couldn’t shoot if they had a weapon. Is that the idea?

A.  Yes, sir.

The Court:  The line on the front had been cut, the end of it was on the other side of the building?

The Witness:  Yes, sir. {p.1-226}

The Court:  So, those people couldn’t see the limousine coming in on that side?

The Witness:  That’s correct.

The Court:  All right. And the line had been—

The other side you say had been pushed way over back there?

The Witness:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  Is there a building there?

The Witness:  I am—

I am not sure. I think there was a building somewhere back in this area, because he was—

Mr. Cohen was actually—

The site, the Doolittle Hanger site, he was the lead for that. So, he was—

Te was the one making the decision for the Secret Service about the actual Doolittle Hanger. So, he was the one that was responsible.

The Court:  Everybody had to be behind him.

Is that what you are saying?

The Witness:  Yes, sir. Well, he made the determination on what was the threat, or either, you know, with the other agents that worked with him, like the counter surveillance. They would tell him what — you know, what was the danger areas. And so he was actually — he was moving the public out of the danger areas for the —

The Court:  Was he just moving them back or was he moving them out of the line of sight behind the building?

The Witness:  He was—

It was time for the president to be coming in, and the people were in the area that was going {p.1-227} to be a secured area.

The Court:  I understand.

The people were right in front next to the fence, which is right where the president’s car would be coming?

The Witness:  Well, there’s a little—

They were more in this area here—

The Court:  Right.

The Witness:  —which is more of the top end of the parking lot. And he was trying to get them out of this area—

The Court:  Right.

The Witness:  —for security reasons.

The Court:  We are just trying to figure out what he did with them. I understand what he did before—

The Witness:  Oh, what he ended up doing was, he took a yellow tape and he put it, you know, across right here, based on time.

And as all these people went up there, then he would let the next 30 go and get behind the building, and he would move the tape up. And each time—

The Court:  Nobody was allowed to be in that area any more?

The Witness:  No, sir. Nobody was allowed—

The Court:  They were either behind the building—

And then I think the question Mr. Pitts was getting to is, where were the rest of the people?

The Witness:  He kept moving them—

They kept moving {p.1-228} back and they were in line back here.

The Court:  Okay.

The Witness:  The rest of the people had already gone into the building.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  So, the area that was clear would be from here to roughly here, staying empty?

A.  Approximately here to here until they went inside the building. And all of this is clear, here, here, and here, except for police.

Q.  Did you participate in holding the people back here or was that other officers?

A.  No, I was engaged with Mr. Bursey.

Q.  Who was holding this crowd in place?

A.  I don’t know.

Q.  Some officer was or Secret Service or otherwise?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And operating sort of a gate?

A.  Right. And whenever the mags were free for the next crowd to go, and then let the next crowd go.

Q.  And when this was taking place, Mr. Bursey was on the south side of Airport Boulevard?

A.  He was either here, here, or here.

Q.  Well, when the first—

He was here before the cut in the line took place.

Was he not? {p.1-229}

A.  Yes, he was.

Q.  Mr. Bursey was on the south side of Airport Boulevard before the cut took place?

A.  Yes.

Q.  So, when the cut took place, he was on the south side?

A.  I don’t—

He was either here, here, or here to my recollection. I couldn’t give you a specific—

Q.  Well, did you ever see him over here on the southwest side of the Lexington-Airport Boulevard intersection?

A.  Yes, sir, when he was being arrested.

Q.  He wasn’t arrested at the stop sign area?

A.  No, sir, he was actually arrested here (indicating).

The Court:  Which is on the south side of Airport Boulevard.

But that’s because y’all—

The Witness:  That’s because he decided he wanted to be arrested, and we walked him over here.

Mr. Pitts:  Well, Your Honor, I object to that characterization. They used it about three times, “Mr. Bursey decided he wanted to be arrested.”

I think the more accurate is, he decided he wanted to exercise his First Amendment right.

The Court:  Well, I think the point they are making is, when he got to the south side of Airport Boulevard, it wasn’t because he walked over there.

You all took him over there.

Isn’t that right?

The Witness:  Yes, sir. {p.1-230}

The Court:  Okay.

Mr. Pitts:  All right.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Now, where was Mr. Bursey when he asked Agent Able why he was being arrested, but the other folks on the south side of the airport — the hanger side of Airport Boulevard were not being arrested?

A.  I — I don’t remember.

Q.  You do remember hearing Mr. Bursey ask—

A.  I do remember him asking that, yes.

Q.  In fact, you reflected that in your statement that you have?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Okay.

But you don’t remember if it was what we are calling site 1, which is the hanger side, or site 2, which was the other side by the stop sign?

A.  And what was the question again?

Q.  When—

Where was Mr. Bursey when he asked the question, “Why am I being arrested, but the folks on the hanger side are not being arrested?”

A.  He was either—

Q.  Yeah, that would be helpful, thank you.

A.  He was either here or here, but I don’t remember which.

Q.  Either here or here, being either in the grassy part—

A.  The grassy area between the Doolittle Hangar parking lot {p.1-231} and Airport Boulevard. Or, the stop sign at the corner of Lexington and Airport Boulevard.

Q.  Okay, thank you.

Now, in that grassy area that—

On the hanger side of Airport Boulevard, do you recall on October 24th there were a dozen or more sort of political signs that were staked into the ground supporting various candidates?

A.  No, sir, I—

I honestly don’t remember that. I remember seeing some on Airport Boulevard down the road. But I don’t remember any being there. There may have been, but I just don’t recall that.

Q.  From your arrival at 7:30 that morning and probably 4,000 people entered the hanger, did you see a good number of political signs that were being carried or staked into the ground?

A.  I honestly did not pay attention to the signs. As long as it’s not a threat, then I — you know, I don’t—

It doesn’t really matter what the signs say.

Q.  Well, I’m not asking whether it matters, I’m just asking if you remember there being signs all over everywhere in that area?

A.  No, sir, I honestly don’t.

I remember buttons being on a lot of the individuals going in. And I remember Mr. Bursey having signs. He had poster-type size signs.

Q.  Okay. Now, I took a note.

I believe you told Mr. Barton that, quote,

“I thought I remembered that Mr. Bursey went into {p.1-232} the line and broke in line.”

Can you testify under oath that Mr. Bursey came from the stop sign area and broke in line?

A.  I actually remember him moving from either this area, or this area, over to where the public was, here, and stood beside the line that was formed, here, with the tape in front of it.

Q.  So, after the—

A.  I do remember him going over there.

And, you know, we walked with him, because he had already told us he didn’t have a ticket.

Q.  So, that was after this cut in the line and the tape had been put up?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  You remember that—

A.  Yes, sir, I do.

Q.  —enough to testify to that under oath?

All right.

And were you making the statement to him, or Agent Able, or both of you, that if he was going to protest, he needed to go to the demonstration, or what you were calling, the “general public area”?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Were both of you saying that to him?

A.  Both of us told him that, yes, sir.

That this was a secure area, and that he needed to be in the public area.

Q.  And the public area was where?

A.  At 302 and Airport Boulevard. {p.1-233}

Q.  And was there any other area that would be — could be defined at that point in time as the public area?

A.  I’m not following what you are saying.

The public area for any type demonstration, if you were not going into the event, if you did not have a ticket, was at 302 and Airport Boulevard.

He did not have a ticket and did not want to go into the event. He wanted to stand in a restricted area, which we could not allow him to do, for the safety of the president.

Q.  And was there any other place at Columbia Airport where he could go, other than 302 and Airport Boulevard?

A.  He could go to the airport, if he had wanted— you know, if he had wanted to, he could have gone to the airport. Or he could have gone to the parking lot at Midland’s Technical College.

Q.  And why there? Where did—

A.  Because it was outside of the secure zone.

Q.  Okay. What was the secure zone?

A.  The secure zone was approximately 100 yards up Lexington Avenue here, out to 302, or that way, and to the next intersection here, and all the area surrounding Doolittle Hanger.

Q.  Now, my question is to you, did you—

Not anybody else—

Did you tell Mr. Bursey that 100 yards north on Lexington Boulevard ended the restriction area? {p.1-234}

A.  No, sir.

But we didn’t need to.

Every time he was in a secure zone and decided to stay there, we would tell— we told him.

Q.  So, I see, he would have to do like this. And say, “Am I out yet?”

And you would keep saying no?

A.  Mr. Bursey did not—

Q.  Do it one more time, “Am I out yet”?

A.  No, sir.

Mr. Bursey did not want to leave the area he was in.

Mr. Pitts:  Your Honor, I move to strike what she’s saying as to what Mr. Bursey wanted.

She can’t testify what Mr. Bursey wanted.

The Court:  Well, I think she testified what Mr. Bursey told her, which was that he wasn’t going to leave. She can testify to that. Now, your question —

Mr. Pitts:  Well, that’s different than saying what he wanted.

The Court:  Your question is, did—

When they told him that he couldn’t remain where he was, did they tell him anywhere he could go other than the demonstration area.

And I guess you are saying, no, you didn’t.

The Witness:  He didn’t ask us is there anywhere else he could go.

The Court:  All right.

The Witness:  We told him that he could go to that {p.1-235} area or he needed to leave the area.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Now, this is the same Mr. Bursey that you knew from Captain — I’m sorry, Major Weaver — had contacted Major Weaver and said,

“I plan to go to the demonstration, I want to go to the airport where the president is. I want to demonstrate. I want to talk with y’all and try to work out a resolution of where and how that is going to take place,”

Right?

You knew he wanted that, did you not?

A.  Yes, sir.

And Major Weaver told him to call me to find out, and he never called me.

Q.  And did anybody make any overtures to him? He had already contacted one SLED agent, Major Weaver, correct?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  And did anybody from the SLED office make any effort to contact Mr. Bursey to try to meet him with some compromise resolution of where would be an appropriate place to demonstrate on October 24th?

A.  Yes, sir.

I told you Major Weaver called him back and told him that he would need to contact me for information regarding the event, and he did not.

Q.  And then there you were on October the 24th. And he’s standing there saying, “I really want to exercise my rights.”

And you didn’t think it might be important to say, “You can go 101 yards up Lexington Boulevard and you will be able to stay {p.1-236} there”?

A.  It’s always important to me at an event to make sure that the job I do is done right. And we were trying to assist Mr. Bursey. And I feel went beyond that in helping him understand that he was in a secure area and that he—

We gave him options of what he could do.

And he did not choose to do anything other than be arrested.

He did not want to leave the area.

Q.  And none of those options included telling him where the secure area ended, did it?

A.  No, sir.

But there is no reason for us to tell him that, because of the security of the president.

Q.  Telling Mr. Bursey that 101 yards up the avenue would somehow threaten the president?

A.  I can’t answer—

I don’t—

Q.  Well, I didn’t understand what you said. About helping him out. To know where the restricted zone ended wasn’t one of your options, because somehow that wouldn’t be protecting the president.

That’s what I thought I heard you say.

If I didn’t hear it right, tell me what you said.

A.  I haven’t eaten today, my son had surgery and I have got the shakes right now.

Can I—

The Court:  Need to take a break?

The Witness:  Yes.

Mr. Pitts:  That will be fine.

The Court:  We will take a break for about 10 {p.1-237} minutes.

Mr. Pitts:  All right.

The Court:  Come back at ten minutes till 5.

(Short recess)

The Court:  Mr. Barton, you joining the defense over there?

Mr. Barton:  I will do many things, Your Honor, but I’m not doing that.

The Court:  All right, Mr. Pitts, are you ready?

Mr. Pitts:  Your Honor, I don’t have any other questions.

The Court:  Oh, okay.

Well, have you got any redirect?

Mr. Barton:  Briefly.

Redirect Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  How many demonstration areas have been designated at this site?

A.  How many demonstration areas have been designated?

Q.  Or public areas, however you want to characterize it?

A.  One.

Q.  That was at 302 and Airport Boulevard?

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  Was there a demonstration area 101 yards up Lexington Avenue? {p.1-238}

A.  No, sir.

Mr. Barton:  Thank you.

That’s all I have.

The Court:  Thank you, ma’am, you can step down.

Have you got one more witness?

Mr. Barton:  The government will call Frank Kelley.

The Clerk:  Please state your full name for the record.

The Witness:  Franklin E. Kelly, K-e-l-l-e-y.

Franklin E. Kelley, Sworn

Direct Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  By whom are you employed, please, sir?

A.  United States Secret Service.

Q.  And in what capacity?

A.  I’m a special agent.

Q.  Agent Kelley, how long have you been employed by the Secret Service?

A.  Six years.

Q.  And did you have any law enforcement experience prior to that?

A.  Yes, I did, with the Rock Hill police department for four years.

Q.  And where and for what length of time have you served in the United States Secret Service?

A.  My first assignment was for about five and-a-half years {p.1-239} here in the Columbia, South Carolina field office. And in June of this year I was transferred to the presidential protection division in Washington, D.C.

Q.  And that’s where you are now?

A.  That’s correct.

Q.  Back on October 24th, 2002, did you participate in the Secret Service’s efforts concerning the president’s visit to Doolittle Hanger?

A.  I did.

Q.  And what were your responsibilities?

A.  I was what we call the TS counterpart. I was the Columbia field office representative for the transportation section. I assisted in the motorcade routes and security.

Q.  Okay. And just briefly, what does that assistance with the motorcade entail when you are the liaison with the Washington —

A.  As the assistant, basically would go out with the motorcade advance agent and the counterparts from the highway patrol, and other law enforcement entities, and determine the motorcade route, determine, you know, times that we would sweep the route, when we would close other routes down that would intersect our routes, how we would secure the routes.

Q.  And were you in fact part of the motorcade on this particular visit?

A.  Yes, sir. {p.1-240}

Q.  And describe for the court, if you would, how the motorcade was set up, what parts were where and what happened with the vehicles that were involved?

A.  Do you want me to step down?

Q.  If you would, please. There’s a pointer right there at the bottom.

A.  Okay. I was in the what is called the route car, also known as the five minute car. We go out several minutes ahead of the actual departure of the motorcade, and go down the route as a final check to make sure everything was secure.

On this particular day, that car, along with the highway patrol motorcycles, and I guess what you call the front section of the motorcade, the non-secure area of the motorcade, I guess, we were parked along this fence line right here.

Q.  Okay. And you were describing the curb on the western side of the Tarmac area to the left of the Doolittle Hanger, as far left as you can go on that chart?

A.  Yes.

Q.  As far left as you can go on the paved area?

A.  Right. Right along here, it’s lined up right here.

Q.  About how many vehicles would have been lined up right there?

A.  I think four patrol cars, and this is approximate, and about maybe eight — six or eight motorcycles.

Q.  Okay. And you say it’s the front part of the motorcade? {p.1-241}

A.  Right.

Q.  Where is the president and his vehicles, his limousines and —

A.  Oh, they were over by the airport fire station, along with the staff vans and the Secret Service vehicles and the staff vehicles, and then the police vehicles were up here.

Q.  Okay. And how was this motorcade going to work? Take it from when the president arrives, what happened, what cars go where?

A.  Well, when the president arrives at the terminal and obviously steps off to get in the limo, they are going to come around the flight line, the front side of the building on the airport, coming in around this way, and would come in right up here.

Q.  Okay.

A.  If you were going to the event, to this thing, and then you would get — several minutes before he departed, you know, I would get the word, and we would depart out this way and hang a right —

Q.  You say “we” would depart, who is we?

A.  We, meaning all the vehicles, the highway patrol vehicles and the motorcycles would go on out ahead. Well, actually let me back up. My car would go out first, and then the rest of them would come out with the other part of the motorcade that would marry up right here and go out together. {p.1-242}

Q.  Okay. So, the presidential limousine would join up with the other vehicles at the intersection of Lexington and Airport Boulevard?

A.  Right. My car went out five or 10 minutes ahead of his departure time.

Q.  Okay. What time did you arrive there at Doolittle Hanger on the 24th — or that area on December — on October 24th?

A.  I arrived — well, I arrived at the airport around — I think approximately between 6 and 7 a.m.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And vehicles all got swept, all these vehicles that we were in — and when I say “swept,” I mean a bomb sweep.

Q.  Okay.

A.  And then, you know, probably — I would say maybe an hour — again, this is approximate — maybe about an hour before he was due to arrive at the airport, we went ahead and went on over here and prepositioned over here.

Q.  Do you know — you can have a seat.

A.  Okay, thank you.

Q.  Do you know Tamara Baker and Holly Able?

A.  I do.

Q.  When you lined up the vehicles over there about an hour ahead of time, did you stay with the vehicles? Is that where you remained?

A.  Yes. {p.1-243}

Q.  While you were there, did you see Holly able and Tamara Baker engaged in any conversations with individuals?

A.  I did.

Q.  Okay. Did you participate in those conversations, have anything to do with what was going on over there?

A.  No, sir.

Q.  Okay.

A.  Not with the individuals they were with.

Q.  Okay. After the president — I’m sorry. Did there come a time when this area was shut down to all vehicular traffic and foot traffic, other than for police and that type of individuals?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Where did you remain — and when did that happen in relation to the president’s arrival?

A.  On this visit he was actually early, as I recall. So, my recollection is, about 10 to 15 minutes before he came.

Q.  Okay. And where did you remain during that 10 or 15 minutes?

A.  With the cars in that same spot.

Q.  Did you have any conversations with anybody approaching that area?

A.  Yes, I did. A gentleman — and I was with the car, that doesn’t necessarily mean I was in the car, I was out of the car talking to the troopers or whatever — and a guy came up from {p.1-244} behind and said that he was with the band that was playing, and said that they were late, and they were there to deliver lunch for the band.

Q.  Was there a band inside Doolittle Hangar?

A.  The band was already in, they were already in and were playing. And they were trying to determine whether they could still get in and bring the food. And I told them at that point they couldn’t, because everything was shut down, everything was secure.

There was imminent arrival of Air Force One and the president, and we couldn’t have any movement inside our restricted area. And, you know, I told them, I said, “I’m sorry, you know, I’m sure, you know, but you couldn’t get in.”

Q.  What did you tell them they had to do?

A.  They had to leave.

Q.  Did they leave?

A.  Yes.

Mr. Barton:  Just one moment, Your Honor.

That’s all the questions I have.

Answer any questions Mr. Pitts might have.

The Court:  Mr. Pitts.

Mr. Pitts:  Just one moment, Your Honor.

Cross Examination

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Kelley, how are you? My name is Lewis Pitts, I’m {p.1-245} representing Mr. Bursey.

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  And Mr. Rauch Wise is helping me.

A.  Okay.

Q.  Did you help prepare the motorcade route?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And were you the one that made the decision for the motorcade to go out the way it did, to turn right on Airport Boulevard?

A.  No.

Q.  Who made that decision?

A.  I was part of the decision, but an Agent Chuck Brand from the transportation section of the president’s protective division is the final authority, if you would.

Q.  Okay. And was the—

If you wouldn’t mind, with this pointer, indicate for us exactly how the motorcade was going to form up. I assume to be close to the door to pick up the president, and take it from there if you don’t mind.

A.  It’s really simple. Come out this door—

The Court:  And that’s the door on the left, the bottom left side of the hanger?

The Witness:  Yes, sir. Out this door, hang a left, hopefully make this U-turn and go out.

Mr. Pitts:  Okay.

The Court:  Make a U-turn, turning right on Airport {p.1-246} Boulevard?

The Witness:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  Okay.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Now, would the motorcade have been able to go out this exit faster had it left the doorway here at the bottom of the Doolittle Hanger, gone up near the little green island that’s got chain link fence on it, and turned to here so that it could then go that way? Would that not have cut out the sharp U-turn and allowed for more speed in the flow of travel?

A.  I don’t know if that would increase the speed in any way.

Q.  It would have certainly done away with the sharp sort of hairpin horseshoe turn, would it not?

A.  Well, yeah, if he went out that way, obviously he would have been able to go that way, but it wouldn’t have changed the speed in my opinion at all.

Q.  And had he — had that motorcade done it the way I’m describing here, that would have been on par, if not an easier turn, than the turn down here where Airport Boulevard intersects with 302, which is pretty much a 90 degree turn?

A.  I don’t know — you know, based on the way you described it, it might have been easier, but I don’t know if it would have been more secure. Ease is not always more secure.

Q.  But it would have been able to maintain more speed, would it not? {p.1-247}

A.  Yeah — well, I wouldn’t say even that. I mean, the speed would have been the same.

Q.  Well, can’t you go faster making a more of a sweeping turn than you can if you make a hairpin turn?

A.  Well, the thing that you are missing is, first of all you have got this gate here, okay, that you have got to get these cars through. Second of all, you know, we keep the package together when they are starting off. It’s a lot of cars, okay.

So, again, just starting off and going this way, I don’t think you are going to change the speed any. Because you have got to get through this gate, okay, with large vehicles. You are not just going to — it’s not like you see on TV where they go flying out a hundred miles an hour as soon as they start off, it just doesn’t work that way.

But I just don’t think it would have affected the speed. And, again, speed isn’t the key. It might be one of the keys, but the key is the overall security, and I just don’t think it would have been any more secure.

Q.  If the motorcade route had gone — rather than back west of Doolittle —

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  — had simply got on the Tarmac east and entered onto Airport Boulevard, it would have avoided this hairpin turn completely, would it not?

A.  Well, obviously it would have avoided that hairpin turn, {p.1-248} yes, sir.

Q.  And there are — or do you know whether or not there are two different paved entranceways off the Tarmac back here where I’m diagraming to the east of Doolittle Hangar that go up onto Airport Boulevard?

A.  I don’t know. If you say there are, I will take your word for it.

Q.  But I guess, stating the obvious, had they gone that way, they wouldn’t have had to have done the hairpin turn?

A.  Sure. But then you would have other issues, security issues going that way. So, that’s why this route was chosen.

Q.  All right. Now, when you were set up here by this little island to the west of the intersection of Lexington and Airport Boulevard, did you see a point in time when the crowd that was lined up outside waiting to go in had been divided into two parts and one crowd pushed more in your direction?

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  And was that a point in time when you saw Able and Baker, Lieutenant Baker and Agent Able, talking to an individual in this area here on the airport — I’m sorry, the hanger side of Airport Boulevard?

A.  I remember initially an individual being here, but you have got to remember, I was kind of removed from that situation.

Q.  I got you.

A.  I was back here talking to these guys. I noticed — I saw {p.1-249} people approach them. I think the crowd was there at that time, that sounds about the right time frame. But at that time it wasn’t — it wasn’t a concern for me at the moment.

Q.  Were the number of people at that point when you saw Able and Baker speaking with an individual here on the hanger side of Airport Boulevard, would you say you could give me a number, or was the crowd too large to give a number that were lined up waiting to go in?

A.  I don’t really recall. You have to forgive my memory, but we do these — especially just in the last six months I have been out of town probably three quarters of that time doing a bunch of trips.

Q.  I got you.

A.  And they all run together. And I don’t recall specifically how many were there. I mean, I know initially when we first got there this line stretched all the way back, and it was —

Q.  All the way back off the left-hand side of this chart?

A.  Stretched way back, yes.

Q.  On Government’s 1?

A.  Yes.

Q.  When you say “way back,” your finger went off the chart?

A.  Right.

Q.  Can you verbalize what your finger did?

A.  Right. Yeah. I mean, yes. It was back toward Eagle Aviation. {p.1-250}

Q.  All right.

A.  And I know there was an immediate concern for myself, because it was blocking our emergency exitway.

Q.  All right.

A.  And so I — we have a discussion with Agent Cohen about doing something different with the crowd, because they were let in late and we — it was some concern.

Q.  Now, the area where I’m running the marker is like a chain link fence, it runs from Doolittle Hanger off the west side and you connect here to a little green island. Is there anything behind that chain link fence, or is that an open area as this diagram seems to indicate?

A.  I believe that day, my recollection is, the employees that were working in this building were parked in there.

Q.  Okay. So, other than parking that was in here, this area was unobstructed?

A.  Well, yeah, you are asking — yes, you could have driven that way, yes.

Q.  So, if you could drive that route beside the fence and out this area of the gate, you could probably see through that, right, could you not?

A.  Yeah, I think you could see.

Q.  So, if you were part of this crowd that was gathered here by the little island that’s marked chain link fence here —

A.  Uh-huh. {p.1-251}

Q.  — if you were in this crowded area, you would have at least a visual shot here to the western side of the hanger, would you not?

A.  Sure.

Q.  All right. You can go ahead and take a seat.

A.  All right.

Mr. Pitts:  Just one minute.

The Court:  All right.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Agent Kelley, to the best of your recollection, how long after the line that was waiting on the hanger side of Airport Boulevard, which had been cut, with a gap in there —

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  — after that cut took place before the president arrived on the initial arrival?

A.  How — rephrase your question, because I’m not quite sure what you are asking me.

Q.  Remember we were just talking about when the people were waiting on the hanger side of Airport Boulevard —

A.  Right.

Q.  — in this area, and had been split out to this corner back in here —

A.  Right.

Q.  — how long after that took place before the president actually arrived? {p.1-252}

A.  Gosh. I really don’t know.

Q.  Do you know whether or not the reason that the cuts were made in the crowd was because the president was about to arrive?

A.  No, that was the problem — well, what happened is, the crowd was set up late to get into the event, and so we were already behind the eight ball. And when the crowd got big and long, I mean, it was like an immediate issue, I could tell.

And Agent Cohen — I radioed him and he knew it was an immediate issue, so we dealt with it right away. But that was — it wasn’t like five minutes before the president came, it was well before his arrival that we were trying to deal with that issue.

Q.  So, it wasn’t so much based on the president about to arrive as it was based on a large clump of people that had been —

A.  It was based on a lot of people — he’s notoriously early. And more than anything else, it was an issue. And we needed to resolve it now instead of waiting five minutes before he arrived to try to resolve it.

Q.  And why was this cut made in the crowd?

A.  It was made in an attempt to back the crowd up out of the restricted area, out of the emergency egress area, so that if the president did arrive and all those people didn’t get in, they weren’t streamed along and lined up along our exit route. {p.1-253}

Q.  I’m sorry, one more time with the pointer and that might be it.

A.  Sure.

Q.  For the court, just put your pointer where the crowd had been backed up to such that they were out of the restricted area.

A.  Right in this area.

Q.  Show that again. And you are pointing to the west of the little green island that has got the words “chain link fence” marked on it?

A.  Right.

Q.  And that area where your pointer is is —

A.  Yes, this general direction. This general area.

Q.  The highly restricted area?

A.  This general area. Well, what it is is, it’s not so much our restricted area as it is out of our emergency exit egress. Or — well, that’s our technical term. Our emergency exit, I apologize.

You know, the president arrives, shots fired or whatever, we have got to go boom, we are out of there. But if there’s people standing here, you have got a problem. Cars, anything.

Q.  A person standing over here on the north side of Airport Boulevard where the sign is marked stop sign, they wouldn’t be interfering with the exit? {p.1-254}

A.  Yes, they could.

Q.  How could they — by standing there how would they be interfering?

A.  Because they are standing there doesn’t mean that they won’t be standing here when the motorcade tries to pull out, because we don’t know. And it’s not like stopping a Toyota Corolla at that sign, it’s like stopping a freight train. That’s the problem.

Q.  I’m not sure what you mean by it’s like stopping — the limo was like —

A.  Yeah.

Q.  — like stopping a frieght train?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Literally, that individual vehicle?

A.  Yes. Because the features that I can’t — I’m not going to go into, but it’s not just your standard vehicle. And it’s not the car to take out, you know, with your friends in a limo on a Saturday night.

Q.  Okay. Thank you.

Now, were you aware of the motorcade route as it approached and entered into the Sheraton hotel?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And there were some — several very sharp turns at that end of the route, were there not?

A.  Yes, there were. {p.1-255}

Q.  Now, when the motorcade route goes down Airport Boulevard and turns left on 302 —

A.  Uh-huh.

Q.  — is that entire intersection cleared out?

A.  Yeah, that intersection was cleared and controlled, yes, sir.

Q.  So, is every intersection that you crossed with the presidential motorcade, is it cleared?

A.  Define “cleared.” When you say “cleared —” the roadway is definitely clear.

Q.  I mean, from pedestrians on the side of the road who want to wave at the president?

A.  No.

Q.  How about the area at 302 and Airport Boulevard that was described as a demonstration area?

A.  Right.

Q.  Was it going to be cleared out when the motorcade went through?

A.  No, there were areas that you — that you described obviously that were set up for that. But as I recall, going right out of that intersection, there were no people there.

Now, when we made that turn onto Airport Boulevard like at Lizards Thicket and those places, there were people in the parking lot. So, of course, those were public businesses and things that were operating. {p.1-256}

Q.  Well, was the demonstration area that is generally described as 302 and Airport Boulevard —

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  — was it off and out of the way, either north and south on 302, such that it was out of the way of the motorcade?

A.  Yeah, it was in such a position, as I recall — I mean, if people wanted to go there, obviously they were going to be there and they weren’t going to be moved. But it was in such a position that it wasn’t like literally on the side of the road, it was back a little ways.

Q.  How far back?

A.  I think the discussion was — there was like the road and there was a grassy area and then there was a sidewalk that started about probably about 30 yards back from the grassy area. So, I would say from the edge of the grass, the grass and the road met, just a guess, but I would say about 30 to 50 yards.

Q.  And that was assuming that this diagram is set up north being toward the top, was that area south of Airport Boulevard on 302 or north —

A.  I can show you.

Q.  Sure. Sure.

A.  It would be — if this were 302 —

Q.  There you go. That’s good.

A.  — it would be down here somewhere. {p.1-257}

Q.  And you are bringing your marker to the bottom below the south part —

A.  Right.

Q.  — of Airport Boulevard?

A.  Right.

The Court:  Doesn’t that other exhibit include that area?

Mr. Pitts:  It does.

The Court:  Why don’t you put that one up. I think it’s right there.

(Off record discussion)

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Let me ask you, if you don’t mind, if you will look at Defendant’s Number 1.

A.  Okay.

Q.  I will give you a little orientation.

The Court:  You have got to pull on that — that stuff up again.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  I believe, and you can check me out here, this is 302. Here is Airport Boulevard. And that would be Doolittle Hanger.

A.  Okay.

Q.  All right.

If we move to the right on this, to where Airport Boulevard intersects with Highway 302, does that refresh you as to where the free speech area, the demonstration {p.1-258} area, was to be identified?

A.  I don’t see the—

I don’t know how old this picture is. I don’t see the sidewalk on here. But I would just say that the approximate location is right in this area right here.

Q.  And the pointer is approximately, is it fair to say, that’s an inch from this intersection on this map?

A.  Sure.

The Court:  From the left side of 302?

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  Was it going to be on the left side of 302?

A.  Yes, from this side of the airport right here. Yes, sir. Right here.

Q.  It was in plain view of the distance of the motorcade? It was in viewing distance of the motorcade?

The Court:  It was on the left side of 302 below Airport Boulevard?

The Witness:  Yes, sir.

The Court:  Okay.

By Mr. Pitts:

Q.  And about this—

A.  Again, I mean—

Q.  You are not sure?

A.  I’m not really sure.

Q.  And do you know where—

Was it a clear, grassy area? Was it a— {p.1-259}

A.  Sidewalk.

Q.  —parking lot of a—

A.  Sidewalk.

Q.  Okay.

So, it would only be as wide as the sidewalk would be—

A.  It was on the sidewalk.

Q.  Okay.

A.  I mean, I don’t want people standing over a road, or a construction area, or anything. It was a safe, secure sidewalk.

Q.  And do you know if any officers, law enforcement, were posted there?

A.  I don’t know. I know that at the intersection there were several officers. But I don’t know if any of those were delegated to that area. I don’t know.

Q.  All right, you can return.

Mr. Pitts:  Just one moment, Your Honor.

No other questions, Judge.

The Court:  Redirect.

Redirect Examination

By Mr. Barton:

Q.  Agent Kelley—

A.  Yes, sir.

Q.  —from the point the motorcade enters 302. There at the intersection of Airport Boulevard. From that point to—

From that point on, are there a number of driveways, parking lots, {p.1-260} and businesses along 302?

A.  Yes, a large number.

Q.  And what does the Secret Service do to secure that area, that motorcade route, for every one of those driveways, cut-outs, parking lots?

What does the Secret Service arrange to happen?

A.  With the assistance of local law enforcement in that jurisdiction, we have them post those driveways. All those areas — and then you would have the motorcycles who can jump up in a little driveway if it’s not — if they don’t have the manpower to actually physically post it. It’s called leapfrogging, they jump up, pull traffic. The motorcade goes by, they jump ahead, and do the next one.

Q.  That’s for every driveway, cut-out, and parking lot the entire length of 302 this motorcade is on?

A.  Every single one.

Q.  Is any traffic allowed on 302 — if I said 301, I’m sorry — on 302 when the motorcade is using it?

A.  No.

Q.  I’m talking about going either way?

A.  No, sir.

Mr. Barton:  That’s all I have, thank you.

The Court:  Thank you, sir, you can step down.

The Witness:  Thank you.

The Court:  Any more witnesses? {p.1-261}

Mr. Barton:  The government would rest, Your Honor.

The Court:  Any motions?

Mr. Pitts:  Yes, Your Honor.

Could we have five minutes to collect our papers and make that argument?

We would like to think—

The Court:  Would you rather make it in the morning?

Mr. Barton:  Yeah.

Mr. Pitts:  Sure.

The Court:  All right.

We will reconvene at 9:30 tomorrow morning.

Mr. Barton:  Thank you, Your Honor.

Mr. Pitts:  Thank you.

(Thereupon, the proceedings were recessed) {p.1-262}


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Certificate of Reporter

I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from my stenographic notes in the above-entitled matter.

Signature: Gary N. Smith

12-1-03

Date

{Signature}

Gary N. Smith, CM


Gary N. Smith, CM
Columbia, SC

 

Source: Gary N. Smith, court reporter (text file), line numbers omitted, and photocopy of a duplicate original (the court’s public file copy), the first and last pages.

By CJHjr: Converted to text (OCR: FineReader 6.0), formatted (xhtml/css), links, text {in braces}, highlighting, boldface.

This case: United States v. Brett A. Bursey (D.S.C., No. 3:03cr309 {175kb.html}, criminal information filed March 7 2003, jury trial denied June 4 2003, bench trial Nov. 12-13 2003, bench trial Nov. 12-13 2003, verdict Jan. 6 2004: guilty, $500 fine (Bristow Marchant, U.S. Magistrate Judge), district appeal docketed Jan. 13 2004, affirmed Sept. 14 2004 (Cameron McGowan Currie, U.S. District Judge), circuit appeal docketed Oct. 7 2004, affirmed July 25 2005 {64kb.pdf, 64kb.pdf}, rehearing denied Sept. 8 2005 (4th Cir., No. 04-4832), petition for certiorari docketed Dec. 14 2005, certiorari denied Jan. 17 2006 (U.S., No. 05-767).

Previous: Transcript of an Excerpt of Non-Jury Trial, Nov. 12 2003.

Next: Trial Transcript, Day 2, Nov. 13 2003 .

See alsoOther Secret Service protest zone cases” on the docket-sheet page. Brett Bursey

This document is not copyrighted and may be freely copied. “There is no copyright on transcripts of court proceedings that are produced by court reporters” (Gary N. Smith, Court Reporter, Columbia South Carolina, email, Dec. 21 2003).

Charles Judson Harwood Jr.

CJHjr

Posted Dec. 22 2003. Updated June 4 2008.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jksonc/docs/bursey-dsc-d68a.html

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