WARNING BUYERS...
STOPPING THE SCAMMERS...
FIGHTING BACK TOGETHER...
(Information here is aimed at users of ebay.co.uk (United Kingdom) but may also be applicable to international eBay users...)

BOUGHT A 4GB MP3 / MP4 MEDIA PLAYER...?

NOT WHAT YOU EXPECTED...?

HAVE YOU YET TO REALISE THE PROBLEMS THAT YOUR PLAYER COULD HAVE...?

READ ON...
 

IMPORTANT ! : This page is for advice only! I assume no responsibility for damage to your portable media player, PC, or other hardware / software... (nor do I accept responsibility for loss of earnings etc... etc...) You have the responsibility and sense to take from this page what you will...

Last Updated : 3rd March 2007


Examples of fake cloned Apple iPod, and iPod Nano currently being sold on eBay... (some even carrying the Apple logo!).
For the price, they look too good to be true...! And they are...

 ***** Please help to support this page by clicking on anything you like the look of, or donating... *****

What's going on...?

At the moment eBay is dominated with thousands of listings from far eastern sellers when you search for MP3 / MP4 players.

These items are often styled in the same way as the popular Apple iPod, and iPod Nano, but are a fraction of the price and seem like a real bargain compared to the prices for the real thing. They are often referred to on the net as "iPod Nano Clones" in fact (or sometimes Video-enabled S1mp3s (MP4) - another common description of these kinds of portable media players). Some are even sold as genuine iPods, and carry the Apple logo and trademarks!

Most will be advertised as 4GB MP4 players, with a long list of impressive technical specifications...

These players are not what they seem to be... You will be getting considerably less than you have paid for!

Almost none of them will truly be 4GB, and many will not play MP4 files (most play the more obscure Asian AMV and MTV video file formats).

When you hook them up to your PC, they will report to be 4GB, and indeed, you can even transfer this much data to them, at which point the players file system will become corrupted, and the players will become unstable, often crashing or caught in restart loops. This is because the software on the players do not know what to do with the data beyond the players "true" capacity (usually 1GB, or if you're lucky 2GB, or if you're really unlucky as little as 128MB!).

This is referred to as hacked memory, where the players software / hardware has been modified in such a way to report the players capacity falsely, and trick you into believing it is truly a 4GB player.

Many people will not even realise that their newly bought players have these limitations, and will go ahead leaving positive feedback for the sellers (building their reputation as good sellers!), and when they do realise, it may well be too late... When problems occur, it has often gone beyond the time limits for returning the item, or even starting a complaint with eBay / Paypal.

In my research for this site, I read that these media players sell in Asia at around the £8 mark, and are commonly sold as toys!

I myself see this entire scenario as appalling! Thousands upon thousands of people are being ripped off, getting an item that is worth far less than they are paying, and it is all through blatant lies and fraudulent selling...! Ebay too have a lot to answer for, as it is in their own marketplace that this is happening...

Why are sellers doing this...?

Money. As simple as that really...

These kind of media players have become intensely popular over the past year or so, and sellers of these particular players want you to think you're getting a real good deal for your money, when the truth is you're paying over the odds for cheap lower capacity player with lesser functionality.

They are creating supply for the demand under false pretences and lies...

You have come to the right place... If you are not happy with the player that you have bought, then complain!

Firstly contact the seller (usually recommended to do this through eBay's messaging system - so the seller cannot claim that you made no contact...), and tell them that you are not satisfied with the product that you have bought. Let them know that you are aware that this is not a software or hardware "fault", and that you believe that this has been an attempt to pull the wool over your eyes and deceive you through false advertising on the listing (false capacity, not able to play mp4 etc...).

If the seller makes you an offer that you are happy with then congratulations! I have read about sellers offering further players as reimbursement, or full and partial refunds (only go with what you are happy with).

If the seller does not want to play nice... Then you can go onto one of the dispute process'... It's worth noting that many sellers will give you a lot more lies if you complain about their merchandise... They will tell you that maybe the player has been damaged in transit, or that there is a software / hardware error with the player, or even that they have sent you the wrong player...! These are more lies! They have been caught out selling you a deceptive product, and will do anything to avoid admitting this!

Returning items may be risky. I have read many stories of sellers taking the money and the returned product, and giving nothing in return! However, I'm sure this cannot be the case for every seller. Always remember that none of the fault lies with you, it is the seller at wrong here (they have made an obvious attempt to deceive you in this sale!). Also, postage costs can be horrific, and although you may have thought you were buying from the UK, most sellers have their eBay accounts set up in such a way to deceive you here also. Most are based in the far east (Asia... Hong Kong... etc...).

Both eBay, and Paypal, have dispute process' for buyers (links at the bottom)... Use them! There are time limits though, so don't hang about!

If you want more done, try contacting ebay (link below, at the bottom of this page), and telling them that you are not happy with how they deal with these sorts of listings. Is it not their responsibility to make shopping on their site safe for everyone?

Also, if you feel the need, try contacting as many other buyers who have bought the players from the same seller. If enough people realise what is going on, and complain, then we can all put a stop to this! Remember, in this scenario most people will not realise that there are problems with the players until it's too late (especially at the time of writing (Dec 2006), many people will have bought them as Christmas gifts, and so they'll be wrapped, put away, and not fully tested).

To do this, look at the "completed listings" of the seller in question, and find the listings where they are selling the same item (you'll need to be logged into your ebay account to do this...). You will then be able to go into each listing, and see who won that particular auction. Click on their user name, and you'll see their feedback page, from where you can "contact member" (there is a limit of only being able to contact 10 members each day, which is all the more reason that more of us should do this, and bring back the community ideal of eBay!).

USE THE FEEDBACK SYSTEM! THE most useful tool that ebay offers is feedback... use it! You may fear getting negative in return for leaving negative, but sometimes you really have just got to bite the bullet as it were (especially if you've tried to resolve matters other ways). If you've been had by a seller, warn others! Please feel free to quote this site address (www.xbox0.co.uk) and remember, even if you have already left feedback (perhaps a hasty positive?) you always have the opportunity to use follow up feedback to add details of your concerns (see eBay for details on how to follow up on feedback)...

(Note: as of 10/06 sellers who make their feedback private will no longer be able to list items! So if a seller doesn't like all the negatives they get, they are much more likely to have to shut up shop...!).

Another interesting thing I found out recently is that no seller should list more than fifteen identical items at one time (as according to the ebay.co.uk listing policy statements). If you check out most of the sellers listings, you'll quite often find that they sell hundreds of identical players at a time, dominating the search results for media players... This is considered unfair by eBay (in principle anyway). If you felt the need, you could report the seller for violating this policy on ebay, though eBay are not always guaranteed to act upon these reports... Just another way to "lean" on a seller...

Also, check out the links section below where you'll find other sites and pages (some government and media run) that could help you.

Finally, especially if you thought you were buying a genuine Apple iPod (much depends on how the listing went...), you may want to contact Apple's legal team, and report the seller to them. Apple Legal contacts HERE.

A word of warning... Both Ebay and Paypal can get very arsey if you do not follow their own process' for dealing with these kinds of sellers, and if you start to try to use the ebay systems against the sellers (like for example opening new accounts just so you can bid/buy and leave negatives for the sellers (without any intention to pay...)). this is a one way ticket for slaps on the wrist from ebay, or even account suspension (even your legitimate one). People have contacted me with the above suggestion, but I do not condone, nor recommend, anyone to do anything like this! Often the innocent will get punished, and the guilty will go free... Play hard, but play fair...

Give 'em hell...!

... and good luck...!

Do some research...

Always read reviews, and advice, before making any expensive purchase (especially technology).

On eBay, use the feedback of the seller you are about to buy from, which in a scenario like this one may not be an obvious warning when sellers seem to have a reputable overall feedback score...

Go one step further and look at only the neutral and negative comments to get a better idea of what went wrong with bad sales from the seller. Remember that it may only be the technology savvy that recognise the problems with these media players, in time to leave negative feedback, while the majority don't spot the problems, and so negatives are swallowed up by people leaving positives (and equating to the seller keeping a good overall score, usually in the 90+%'s).

To see only the negative feedback of a seller, go to the sellers full feedback page (by clicking on their user id), and where it says period (just to the right, before the feedback comments), select "past 12 months" then click "go"... You will now be presented with the option to look at all Positive, Neutral, Negative, and Withdrawn feedback comments separately (why eBay set the site up like this I will never know... It's as if they don't want you to easily see bad feedback...!).

Also take a look at THIS site... Enter an eBay user id to see only neutral / negative feedback comments... as well as other eBay tools on the wider site...

How do I find out the "true" capacity of my player...?

There are two ways to find out the "true" storage capacity of your player...

The first is to open the player and take a note of the make and model numbers of memory chips inside, then research the capacity on the manufacturer's websites (though not recommended for most people, as this will no doubt void any warranty, and may result in damage to the player...). There's an eBay guide (written by an eBay member) HERE if you'd like to know more...

The second is to format the player to it's true capacity. This is highly recommended, especially if you are planning on keeping the player... Remember, it could run unstable until formatted, corrupting uploaded files (uploaded files beyond the players capacity), making the player behave strangely, and crashing...

If your player came bundled with a software cd, then a format tool should be on there, but with many you may not be able to load it up on your pc... or you may not have received one...

WARNING! : Some people have found there to be computer virus' on the cd supplied with their players. Take the necessary precautions with your antivirus software before installing anything on your computer!).

You need a piece of software called "AMV Convert Tool 3.68" (download HERE or do a Google search for it...). This all assumes you are running a standard PC with Microsoft Windows as the operating system...

Before you begin, backup anything you want / need from the player (i.e. copy and paste all the files you want to keep from the player onto your pc... Formatting will wipe all files from the player!).

Once installed on your PC, with the player turned on and attached with the USB, run "MP3 PLAYER DISK TOOL" from the program group in the start menu. When the tool loads, select "low" in the format type, then select the "partition and encryption" tab at the top of the window. Firstly you must drag the slider all the way to the right, and click "start", formatting the drive... Then drag the slider all the way to the left, and again click "start", this time formatting to the correct true capacity the player has...

The player will now run with much more stability, and with it's true capacity being recognised by Windows...

For more advice about the software / hardware related to your player, see the links below...

Here is a list of confirmed sellers that stock and sell these kinds of players with hacked memory. If you would like me to add a seller, then contact me HERE. Sellers should sell on ebay.co.uk, and will only be added after confirmation from their ebay feedback... If you are a seller that has been added here, and feel that it is unjustified, then please get in touch for possible removal...

Be wary buyers...! It seems sellers often change their ebay user id's, and even their accounts when things don't go their way, so some traders may be selling under multiple account alias'. If you suspect this let me know and I'll add it here...

Also, be aware that the item location on the listings, and the registered location of the seller, are often lies (making you think you are buying from the UK). Most, if not all, will be from Hong Kong, or other eastern countries... (Important for cost of returning items...).

This list is far from comprehensive... There are many more sellers listing these players, I am sure, but it is very difficult to find out and confirm for definite that they have the reduced storage capacity, until someone leaves feedback saying this... Just be careful who you buy from people...

Finally, it's worth noting that many of these sellers (and others) get just as much bad feedback with regards to their customer service (payment, communication, delivery etc...), as they do for selling fraudulent items! Bad eggs all round then...!

Notes :
- As of the end of October 2006, sellers who make their feedback private will no longer be able to list items on ebay! This is a real win for buyers! Sellers will either have to deal with their feedbacks, or move on... Be aware that it's not rocket science to start another ebay account though...

- Watch for changing eBay user ID's... This is more and more common, to avoid upset buyers, and to cause confusion...

- Accounts often stop selling, then re-start, usually due to making feedback private, then public again, etc...

- PLEASE REMEMBER!: I have had lots of people e-mailing me with requests of additions to the below list, however to be fair, I WILL NOT usually add sellers with no eBay feedback supporting the fact that they sell hacked players. If you truly believe that there is enough evidence without feedback then by all means get in touch, and more importantly, if you have bought a hacked player from a seller, and they don't have any feedback against them, then LEAVE A NEGATIVE before you get in touch! (Good idea to quote this site address (www.xbox0.co.uk) so future potential buyers can get a better understanding of what is going on...).
 

The links below will take you away from this page. (I assume no responsibility for outside links).

SITE	DESCRIPTION
	Petition started, aimed at eBay themselves, and government agencies, with an aim to get them to start to deal with this kind of fraud... and stop it!
	Link to the BBC (UK) consumer complaints television programme web page... Articles about both eBay and Paypal can be found here, and you can suggest this MP4 player fraud as a subject of investigation on an upcoming show!
	A UK site dedicated to help you when things go wrong on eBay... They can help with eBay complaints, and promote fair buying and selling...
	"Clear, practical consumer advice... Consumer Direct -  help and advice for consumers in Great Britain..." - UK government website for consumers, with a wealth of knowledge. Call them directly on 08454 04 05 06 ("no more than 4p a min. from a BT landline...").
	A wealth of technical information about these kinds of portable media players...
	Lots of resources, forums, and information about these portable media players...
	THE Blacklist of sellers (internationally), in forum format on MyMpxPlayer.org... (You must register (free) and log in to post replies...).
	See eBay members neutral and negative feedback more clearly than on eBay pages. Just enter the user id of the seller you're interested in, and voila!
	A page comparing genuine Apple iPod products with the fake imitation cloned players... and how to identify the differences... Well worth a look...
	The only professional review of one of these types of players that I've been able to find... Very interesting and thorough...
	One man's fight against eBay seller ugoole (no longer selling... Hurrah! Though now probably selling as e-britain). The now almost famous ebay battle! (On the net anyway...). Lots of tips and advice to be had here...
	"Bogus MP3/4 Player from e-britain/ugoole on eBay" - A page from a ripped-off buyer, offering his story and quite a lot of technical information...
	A government site to report scams (in Australia), including internet related auctions like eBay! Lots of useful information about how to avoid scams too!
	Legal contacts for Apple, including trademark, copyright, patent, and counterfeit prevention contacts, etc... Use if you want to report a seller selling fake iPod products...
	If you paid for your purchase through Paypal, then you may need to follow their resolution service before attempting to use eBay's... To locate the Resolution Centre, please log in to your account, then click the Resolution Centre subtab located on the Account Overview page (between the History and Profile subtabs).
	Begin eBay's "Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described Process"...  You will need your eBay login details, the item number, and the date you paid the seller etc... Can be used between 10-60 days after the transaction date...
	Contact eBay.co.uk... not quite directly unfortunately...
	"The Definitive Fake 4GB+ MP4 Player Scam On eBay FAQ" - Very good information about these players and surrounding circumstances here...
	(1st) Ebay Guide related to these players (written by ebay member).
	(2nd) Ebay Guide related to these players (written by ebay member).
	3 eBay Guides written by ebay member: b00kanear, related to these players...

Donate... :

Though I do not expect to make money from this page, but I do spend a long time researching for it, and my zero hourly rate is terrible...

If you have found this page to be useful, and would like to make a secure Paypal donation, just to say thanks, then please do so below...

Please...

I would also like funds to purchase players from suspected sellers for confirmation purposes, and advertise this site to a wider audience, but at this moment it's not looking likely... (Got no money!).