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November, 2005 - Pat & Alexander Burdick - pandabee@shaw.ca
Hello Gordon, My name is Pat Burdick, I live in Port Alberni on the West Coast of Vancouver Island BC, Canada I have spent many ,many hours reading all the fascinating History on your site and am totally enjoying every minute of it.! I am hoping you can help me . I am searching for the name and location of an "Old Wooden Bridge" in Glasgow , years 1830-1840 in particular. I do not know the name of this bridge I am looking for, but I do have some descriptions of it from an autobiography of my husband's namesake and 2x great grandfather ,Alexander Macdougall. He and members of his family lived near this bridge for 2 years, during the years between 1830-1840. With all your knowledge I am hoping you may be able to help me solve this dilemma. the descriptions of this bridge. *** are from words in his book. *** he called it the "AULD WOODEN BRIDGE" ***it had a Toll House ***"across this bridge on the side on the River facing the City , there was a Church" , ***and also "on the side of the river facing the city and east of the bridge there was a large mansion in the middle of an extensive park." ***"The owner of this mansion was a city worthy and they had one son". Apparently this son committed suicide by jumping off this bridge. ***There is a reference in our book to a minister, "Old Daddie Tamson", as being a popular minister there at this church. -------I have searched and found a reference to a William Thom, who ministered at the Govan Church before 1800 , not in my time frame ,but it could be a clue. ***in the late summer the river was very shallow-could be walked across from one side to the other. ***early Spring and in declining Autumn ,"prodigious tides would flood the lowlying meadows." ***When this area would freeze people would skate on it. ***During flood seasons the ice would pile high to the top of the arches making the bridge creak and groan. ****This old wooden bridge was washed away during a winter hurricane and flood, supposedly during the years between 1830 and 1840. ------I have also found an old map showing the Gorbal's Church , near it, crossing the river are 2 bridges. One is named "Old Bridge" , the other "Wooden Bridge" --just adds to my questions--- ----To date there are no recorded records of our Alexander Macdougall from 1830 when he was born ,until 1852 when he became a minister. -----Locating this particular bridge and location would enable us to find where he and his family were living during the years 1830-1840 and help us narrow our search parameters. Would you be able to set my mind clear?? If you can help me in any way I truly would appreciate it. Sincerely and with best regards, Pat Burdick and husband , Alexander Macdougall Burdick
My Reply - 20th November, 2005 Hi Pat, Glad to hear you’re enjoying the site. I’m caught up in work just now and haven’t been able to add too much to it of late. Also, I’m in the process of compiling a book on the east end and don’t want to include too much of the information on the site that will be in the book! I may try to include some information on Glasgow Green from December that might be useful. Anyhow, I’d like to include your enquiry and my reply onto the site from 1/12/05 if that’s OK? Hopefully, it may elicit further material. I’d also be interested in your great grandfather’s autobiography if you could provide a reference? As to how much I can help with your enquiry – you’ll understand that my field of interest is the east of the city and north of the river so that puts a restriction on my information. The Clyde in those days before being deepened did flood a considerable part of the riverbanks quite frequently. Nevertheless, from the bottom of the Saltmarket to Stockwell I am aware of only two wooden bridges which might approximate with your dates. Tollhouses would be nearby as that tended to be standard give the practices of the day for collecting taxes on goods moving about. They would both have been in locations that were relatively easy to ford in the summer months, but the sources I have to hand do not give a particularly detailed history. The bridges are the present Albert Bridge, which lies in close proximity to Victoria Bridge downriver. There have been 5 bridges at the Albert Bridge site. The first, Hutchesontown Bridge, was begun in 1794 and was of stone. It was effectively destroyed during the build in a flood of 1795. It was replaced by a timber footbridge in 1803 until another stone bridge replaced it in 1829/34. The assistant curator of the People’s Palace Museum wrote a history of the Glasgow Green in 1985, and she describes this wooden bridge as having collapsed during a riot in 1821. The book contains an illustration of 1808, and no church is obvious on the south bank. I don’t know if this bridge was repaired immediately or not, and the account gives no indication of the wooden bridge’s ultimate fate. The information I have access to concentrates on the replacement bridges. A map of 1832 shows a large house east of the bridge on the side opposite the city, as Stonefield, set in its own grounds. There is no indication of a church, although that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there! Close behind Stonefield is Gorbals Burying Ground – associated with the church? Victoria Bridge is a descendant of the original stone Glasgow Bridge of the mid-15th century. It fell into disrepair with accounts of restrictions and repairs, etc being made from the mid 17th century. In 1821 the road surfacing was widening by Thomas Telford. I have a map of 1832 showing a second bridge beside the original. It was common practice to built a wooden alternative to accommodate traffic while such alterations were made, and a wooden structure may well have been put up at this time. At any rate, a Wooden Accommodation Bridge was authorised and built next to the old bridge by January 1847 to allow the old stone bridge to be taken down and replaced. I suspect there were two such wooden bridges next to the old at various times during this period, and am inclined to think Victoria Bridge is your best candidate. Glasgow Bridge would certainly be know as the “old bridge” due to its antiquity. Hutchesontown just wouldn’t have this heritage in the 1830s. Again, the fate of the wooden bridge(s) is not specified. Searching newspaper reports of the period might provide this. On the 1832 map, the opposite side of the river does not show any large mansion in its own grounds. It seems possible that there was a wooden bridge spanning the Clyde in the early 19th century at Hutchesontown while there was nothing further downstream until the you reached the old Glasgow bridge. I think you’re on the right road with Gorbals Church.. It seems to have originated from the Govan Parish, but Scottish Church history is convoluted at the best of times. However, there seems to be some confusion which you probably have the answer to already if you’ve looked at Govan’s history. A church was built at the present Salisbury Street in 1730 as a chapel of ease, with the parish being disjoined from Govan in 1771. The notes I have indicate a new church in 1810, becoming Gorbals q.s. in 1819. Was this still in Salisbury St? or the one in Calton Place, on the riverbank?. The Church of Scotland info I have indicates the Calton Place church was dedicated in 1861 – did this replace an earlier one on site or the one in Salisbury Street or even elsewhere in the area – I don’t know. It seems unlikely that the 1810 church was at Calton Place since the role of ministers at Calton Place would have started at this earlier date while it seems to start from 1862. There is a John Thomson listed, but for 1903-14.Also, disjoining in 1771 also suggests to me it was already an independent parish! A Govan Parish history would be useful! I have to say my inclination is towards the Hutchesontown bridge as being your culprit, but I just don’t have enough to go on. I hope you’ve found this of some use. Gordon
Hi Gordon-- Thank you for answering my questions so promptly. I really do appreciate it. From what you have said I do feel I am looking in the correct area--just wish I could pinpoint it. I feel that one day all will be found , as with help from knowledgeable people like yourself, how could I not be successful.? Our Alexander Macdougall was born April 23, 1830 in Glasgow-this information came from Unitarian Headquarters in Essex.No actual paper record, and nothing can be found on any of the sites that carry this info. I was lucky enough to be directed to the Librarian at Harris-Manchester Library last Dec. and she found his Obituary as well as the copy of his Autobiography. She was kind enough to photocopy both of these and send them to us. They have his book in their Library in the "Specialized Collection on the History of Protestant Dissent and Unitarianism".It was published in 1900 by T.Fisher Unwin. The title is "Allan Lorne-Minister of Religion", by Alexander Macdougall. It is an absolute miracle that we came by this book. In it he describes his growing up years, education, marriage and where he ministered in Essex. However, he has changed names and places slightly-and has left many clues to figure out---perhaps to "protect the innocent" or to "confuse those researching his life" ---and that he has accomplished very well!!Just when I think I have it all figured out--another question arises!!! How I wish I could just sit down with him and hear his story first hand. I also was lucky enough to have an answer to another question about his education from a Mr. Huw Walters-Head of the Bibliography of Wales Unit-National Library of Wales. He sent this attachment I am sending to you. Another miracle as this has a picture of Alexander, as well as his education information. I am currently contacting the Glasgow University Archives Dept. with questions as to his education records there. I have learned that they should have records such as parents names and occupation, as well as address where a student was living at the time, plus any remarks as to what kind of student he was. So this would be miracle number three!!! Of course you may include my query to you and your response, to your site--I would be honored that you would care to do this. I have your site bookmarked on my desk top so I can access it quickly. Will your book be published soon? I would be interested in a copy. Looking forward to hearing from you and once again Thank You very much for your help.
Best Regards, Pat Burdick.
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NOTES: Updated for 1st August, 2006. The location of this site may vary with the availability of web space. However, it can always be reached by searching for the domain names; www.EastGlasgowHistory.com or www.EastGlasgowHistory.co.uk or www.GordonAdams.com or www.GlasgowHistory.co.uk Any comments you wish to make about this site can be sent to EastGlasgowHistory@Hotmail.com Please indicate "East Glasgow History" as the subject of your e-mail to avoid exclusion as spam. Users of AOL please note that I seem to have difficulty in replying to your enquiries. If you find this, have a look under the Alerts section for a reponse. Please note that copyrighted material should not be reproduced in any format without the consent of the author. |
