COMIC WORLD #18, August 1993


WE ARE NOW BETTER THAN EVER

GRANT MORRISON, THE LIVING LEGEND OF WORLD WAR III, AND EMERALD GOLIATH MARK MILLAR RECENTLY ANNOUNCED THAT THEY WERE THE MOST TALENTED PEOPLE IN THE ENTIRE COMIC INDUSTRY.
MARTIN CONAGHAN, THE GRAND VIZIER OF VERITY, WAS INVITED TO ABASE HIMSELF AT THE FEET OF THESE TWO COMIC GODSTARS WHILST THEY FILLED HIM WITH VALUABLE INSIGHT INTO THE GENESIS OF THE SMASH HIT 2000AD SUMMER OFFENSIVE AND THEIR FUTURE GROUNDBREAKING PROJECTS.


CW: Maybe we could begin by talking a little about comics, in particular, the Summer Offensive and how it all came about?

Grant: That has to be the dullest question I've been asked in any interview, so in return I'll try to give you the dullest answer. The whole Summer Offensive package was first mooted ... is that the word?

Mark: Oh, mooted, is it now? La-dee-bloody-dah, you poof. 'Mooted'? 

Grant: F"* off. The whole thing started two years ago: I was bored and looking for something to pep up the tedious round of substance abuse, transvestitism and animal torture which was my life at that point and it occurred to me that 2000AD needed some fresh ideas, so I got together with Mark and John Smith and approached Tharg with the idea of introducing a whole crowd of new characters. We had a few meetings at my house and thrashed out a dizzying array of series ideas and plot outlines. Then it was just a case of waiting for the go ahead. That's about it really. 

Mark: Those first planning sessions threw up a whole list of potential series - Spare Parts(tm), Baron Saturday(tm), Juggernauts(tm), Brian's Magic Car(tm), Sleepless Knights(tm) - some of which were dropped early on, some of which will almost certainly appear elsewhere. In the end we boiled it down to the four strips currently running as the Summer Offensive, We wanted a lively mix of styles and subject matter, and I think that's what we've achieved. 

CW: Was this an attempt, then, to recreate the '70s heyday of 2000AD? 

Grant: Yes and no. I mean, I didn't ever read 2000AD when I was younger. I wasn't particularly interested in comics at that time. I'd seen 2000AD and I was aware of Judge Dredd but it just seemed like a load of old toss, as far as I was concerned. First time I actually read one was in 1985, when I was trying to get work and someone loaned me a pile of Alan Moore 'Future Shocks' to give me some idea of what was required. I was never particularly impressed but I like the idea of 2000AD being in some sense a punk comic when it started out. As far as I can gather, it had a certain radical edge and that's something we're trying to capture for a different generation. We're looking for a sense of danger and recklessness and cheap thrills. Whether we've achieved it is something the readers will have to decide. Obviously, I think we've succeeded amazingly.

CW: I hear a few of the older generation of creators, the comics veterans, are very critical of 2000AD being passed on to you guys. Alan Grant has made no secret of his contempt for Mark's Robo-Hunter scripts....

Mark: Well, I've got no axe to grind against Alan Grant - him and his wife have been very nice and helpful to me in the past - but to be honest, you can't really expect me to give a f*** what he thinks about my work. My Robo-Hunter stories were brilliant and I won a couple of awards to prove it. End of story. 

Grant: I don't think the original writers are as negative as it might seem. A lot of the apparent animosity we've tried to generate is pure theatre and those guys know it. The whole old guard versus the new guard routine is just something we came up with to add a little bit of tension and excitement to this project. As far as I'm concerned, Alan Grant and John Wagner seem like a couple of wholesome blokes. I don't know Wagner that well - he once told me I was terribly vain, which is the understatement of the century - but Alan Grant's always been friendly and, indeed, was instrumental in helping both me and Mark get work with 2000AD.
	I have to admit I'm not a big fan of their work. All that Lobo type stuff and the tired, Heavy Metal imagery; it's the sort of thing someone's dad would come up with in an effort to be cool and ingratiate himself with his teenage sons. Then again, they're probably not big fans of mine. I'm a little more interested in Pat Mills's work. I know I've criticized his inability to tell a story in the past, but I'd say he was the most creative and on the ball writer of the old school. Last year I went to a convention in Sweden with Pat and I can honestly say he's one of the nicest men alive. He doesn't seem to be interested in all the dull gossip and bitchy back-biting. The way I see it, he just enjoys writing comics and having a laugh.
So, yeah, the animosity isn't quite as big a deal as we like to make out. 

Mark: I agree. Pat is the true statesman of the industry. He's always keen to stand up against the big companies for creators rights and has managed to remain relevant throughout a career spanning almost two decades. Other writers come and go but Pat Mills' work is always of interest. Marshall Law is great. 

Grant: What I admire most about the man is his wonderful head of hair and his chiselled, hawk-like features. He's what comic writers should look like - a man of quality and dignity, not one of those f***ing American fatsos, with sweat stains on their Superman t-shirts. If I look as good as Pat Mills when I grow up, I'll be happy as Larry. In fact, in an ideal Britain, we'd like to see Patrick McGoohan as Labour Prime Minister, with Pat Mills a Chancellor and Deputy PM. 

Mark: Yeah, just think how wonderful the world would be if McGoohan and Mills were in Downing St. and William Shatner was in the White House. Shatner and McGoohan could handle all the special missions the SAS were too scared to tackle. Just imagine them up against Saddam Hussein! McGoohan would break him, he'd reduce the bastard to tears and Shatner would show up at a crucial moment, kick Saddam to death and shag his harem. 

Grant: Heh. Brilliant!



ONE DIMENSIONAL BASTARD

CW: Hmm. What was it like writing Judge Dredd? Do you feel you've made any significant changes to him? 

Grant: No. Not at all. The thing with Dredd is that he's completely one-dimensional. Someone like Batman has at least two dimensions because he has a secret identity and a certain degree of psychological motivation and tension. Dredd's just a big bastard with a gun, never anything else. There's nothing under the mask. So I thought long and hard and then just wrote him as a one dimensional bastard with a gun. I did make a definite decision not to do a kind of quirky 'isn't life strange in Mega-City One?' thing, since Garth has been blowing that trumpet with varying degrees of success throughout his run on Dredd. I wanted to do a Dredd story which was just like a Big Arnie film, so 'Inferno' is full of mammoth explosions and things falling over and fast cuts and useless one liners. That's probably the big difference between my Dredd and the others we've seen; mine cracks more shitty jokes.

Mark: At first, everyone thought Grant was going to do Judge Dredd like some kind of poof, the way he did Batman, but once they actually got a look at the script, they realised this was how Dredd was always meant to be. Top Art Droid Colin MacNeil recently read a few episodes and actually burst into tears. He said he had worked on some pretty violent stories in his time, but he'd never read anything like this.

Grant: He was terribly upset. Get well soon, Colin!

Mark: It was probably just as well we had hardman Señor Carlos Ezquerra on the art chores. In his native Spain, Carlos is known as the Mad Matador - El Loco. He was brought up in the heat, blood and agony of the bullring and there are stories of him taking on gore-maddened bulls armed only with two toothpicks and a bottle of San-Miguel. He really appreciated the opportunity to work on such a tough story. Me and Grant have also collaborated on a big Dredd story called 'Book of The Dead', which comes out after the Summer Offensive. It's got Judge Dredd in Egypt fighting the Mummy.

CW: Back to the Summer Offensive though, 'Really and Truly' has a different feel to most of the other strips. It seems less brutal and more whimsical. Did you throw it in there just for contrast? 

Grant: I suppose so. 'Really and Truly' was intended to be the light, buzzy strip, with lots of pop culture references and a kind of breezy pointlessness to it all. I mean, don't get me wrong mate, 'Really and Truly' has its fair share of things blowing up, but my initial idea was to produce a strip which approximated the experience of taking Ecstasy; it's light and it's loveable and makes you want to dance, but when you come down you realise you haven't learned anything. To that end I wrote the entire eight episodes in one day, out of my face on snowballs. It's summery and superficial, but in a way which I hope will recall those dance records you just can't get out of your head. Rian was ideal to capture the feeling I was looking for and he's turned in another classic bubblegum art job. It's not going to win any awards but it's a dancefloor filler and it's a million miles away from all those uptight, dowdy eco-awareness, socio-political stories people keep churning out. The thing I like best about it is that I don't even know which one's Really and which one's Truly.... 

Mark: And by the way, we can firmly guarantee that there's no Virtual Reality or half-arsed Chaos Theory in any of these stories.

Grant: Too true, let's leave that to the lads at Marvel UK - still two years out of date, eh boys?

CW: Next on the list is 'Maniac 5'. What's the story there?

Mark: That's written by me and drawn by Manchester's own Steve Yeowell. It's probably the nastiest, toughest story that's ever been produced in comic form....

Grant: I thought 'Purgatory' was the toughest.

Mark: All right, point taken. 'Purgatory' was hard as nails but comparing it to 'Maniac 5' is like standing Julian Clary next to Giant Haystacks.

Grant: Jesus! That's tough.

Mark: I know, that's what I'm saying. Readers are already screaming for mercy. Steve's got a bit of a vioent reputation, of course, and he's brought a lot of himself to this series. It's a guaranteed classic, as far as I'm concerned, and I'll ride anyone who says otherwise.

Grant: He f***ing will, too.

CW: So what about 'Slaughterbowl' - the dinosaur epic? John Smith isn't here to discuss his contribution so maybe you'd like to say something about it on his behalf.

Grant: I'll try. Of course, the real tragedy is that John could have been with us if only you'd known to bring a Ouija board, Martin. John died recently in fairly unsavoury circumstances. I don't really know what to say about 'Slaughterbowl' other than it makes Jurassic Park look like St. James's Park and has already been optioned for a movie. It's brutal, it's visceral, it's highly intellectual. I think this would have been the story which would have made John famous. He may be dead but I think we'd all agree that he'll live on in the hearts of millions of his fans, Mark?

Mark: I'm glad he's dead. 

Grant: Oh, for God's sake! 

Mark: No, I'm sorry, but that whining nasal voice really got on my tits. So he wrote a lot of good stories but... death's too good for the bastard. 

Grant: Look, that's not even funny. Can we change the subject here? 

Mark: Oh, so we're turning him into some kind of saint now? The Freddy Mercury of Comics?

Grant: That's enough, mate. 

CW: Could we talk about 'Big Dave' now? There's been a bit of controversy about this strip. A lot of people have been saying it goes a bit too far, that it crosses the line between parody and causing genuine offence.

Mark: What people? What are their names and addresses? 

CW: I mean, Dave is supposed to be an over the top racist, sexist, homophobic character, but don't you think that by using words like 'poof' you're asking for trouble? Some sections of the gay press don't seem to find it amusing. 

Mark: Big f***ing deal. 

Grant: It's bollocks but I've come to expect that sort of stupidity. I've written loads of positive, strong gay characters into my comics, not least of which is Sebastian O, who is probably the only gay character with his own title, and not once has the gay press commented on or publicised these pieces of work. They only seem to take an interest when they can dig up something which appears to cast them in a victim role. Too many of the so-called spokespeople for so-called minority groups are simply obssessed with the idea of fostering a climate of fear and suspicion by only focussing on the whole 'them and us' aspect of their lives. They're just trying to reinforce the idea of themselves as being despised members of society because that leads to greater bonding within the minority group and increases the power of the group's self-appointed leaders. Persecution is then made intrinsic to their self-image and leads to grandiose ideas of the group members as somehow so f***ing important and influential that they must be targets of some vast conspiracy against their lifestyle. It should be pretty obvious to anyone with a quarter of a brain that Big Dave is ridiculing and challenging the whole concept of the Thatcherite, classless, Sun-educated man. It's f***ing obvious to me anyway. 

Mark: I thought he was just a tough bastard. What's all this political shite? 

Grant: Sorry, mate. I just got carried away. You have to cover your arse, don't you.

Mark: I'll say! Anyway, Big Dave's a laugh, isn't it? And it looks great too, even though they didn't colour it in like we asked them to.

Grant: Definitely. We can't praise Steve Parkhouse too highly. No artist since Dudley Watkins - my absolute hero - has been so adept at capturing and making absurd the mannerisms and detail of a wholly fictional world. Good on yer, Steve!

CW: So, you think you've succeeded in doing what you set out to do with the Summer Offensive?

Grant: Totally. I think a lot of people wanted it to fail, but there was never any question in our minds that this stuff was going to be anything but massive. And we've been proved right, as ever. There are so many tragic, marginal figures in the British comic scene, all of whom covet our talent, our style, our wealth and our playboy lifestyles. Obviously they're going to be upset. They're forever destined to be below us, snapping angrily at our heels. Sadly, these dismal characters are entirely without teeth or talent. I can only feel a Buddha-like pity when some colourless hack manages to summon up enough courage to fix me in the eye and say, 'Big Dave? ... mrrrrmmmm', which I assume to be some kind of human attempt at non-vocal criticism. Anyone with any sense has read Big Dave and trumpeted with delight.

Mark: There are so many social outcasts and freaks reading comics. Nothing wrong with being a social outcast, but they ought to know their place and when to shut it.

Grant: Yeah. The comic world is polluted with sad f***ing oddballs and twisted wretches.



MI££IONAIRE!

CW: What lies beyond the 2000AD project? Are there any other plans for the months and years ahead? 

Mark: More grand moneymaking scams. That's all we're interested in. Grant's doing three issues of Spawn and you would not believe what he's being paid for it.

Grant: The funny thing about it is, I got the assignment thanks to a misunderstanding at Comics International; I came back from holiday last year to find that they'd run a cover-story about how myself and George Perez would be following the Moore/Gaiman/Sim/Miller issues of Spawn. It turned out to be a completely unfounded rumour but I got in touch with Todd McFarlane and he liked the fact that I had the same surname as Jim Morrison and suggested I write three issues. So, thanks Dez, you've made me a MI££IONARE!!!

CW: Are we going to see a radical intepretation of the character? 

Grant: You've got to be joking. I've written this for Spawn fans, not for the comic critics. Originally the plan was that I'd be doing a three part series with Bart Sears, while Todd took some time off to draw Alan Moore's Violator mini-series, so I tried to write the story in a fairly straightforward way, so not as to jar the readers too much. Now it looks as though Todd will be drawing my issues after all, so I suppose I could have been a little more experimental. Still, why even bother? When I was signing in America, I met a lot of the kids who read Spawn and basically they just want to see lots of fighting and bright lights and monsters and violence. That's the kind of story I've written. It's Spawn against the anti-Spawn for three issues. I really enjoyed doing it and I like Todd's attitude to his work. He's totally into what he does, he's making a fortune and he's putting money back into comics.

CW: So will we be seeing any other material from you at Image? 

Grant: I'd like to think so. I've been working on a 12-issue super-hero story which will be released as three interlinking series - Pantheon(tm), The High Five(tm), and Mister Ink(tm). I've come up with a whole pile of brilliant new characters, which distill and refine everything I find wonderful, strange and unique about superheroes. It's wall-to-wall with fresh situations and concepts, and is, at the same time, simple and accessible. If I can publish it through Image, I'd be very pleased. I'm also working on a Flex Mentallo series for Vertigo. This is the character from Doom Patrol in his own four issue book. Quite simply, it takes the superhero concept into the next century and makes it perform all kinds of new tricks. I came up with a number of new wrinkles on the old chestnut and so much spilled over that I was able to create the entire 12-issue series mentioned above as a result of the conclusions I'd come to while working on the Flex stuff. The twelve issue series is the widescreen, commercial expression of what I'd come up with and the Flex story is the pure, undiluted essence of what superheroes are about and what they are capable of communicating. Reading it will do for you what Shazam! does for Billy Batson. 

CW: What about you, Mark? 

Mark: Steve Yeowell and I are doing the Superman/Batman team-up for DC called Elseworld's Finest - which I've spoken about in another interview and I refuse to discuss at this point - but it's going to be the big thing in '94. Archie Goodwin said he thought it was the best thing since Dark Knight, possibly better. I'm also doing The Executioners - due out early in the New Year, but I suppose the big news is that I'm the new writer on Swamp Thing....

Grant: That's right. After Nancy Collins slings her hook, Mark and me are co-writing a four issue story which strips all the baggage away and returns Swamp Thing to his origins as a monster. We felt that everything since Alan Moore's run has been barnacles on his yacht, so we scraped off the barnacles and then torpedoed the boat. It was essential to get back to what was happening before Alan's exemplary efforts in an attempt to see the character in a fresh light. For the first time in many years, readers are going to see new things happening in Swamp Thing. 

Mark: After those four issues, I'll be taking over the writing on my own and maintaining the same high standard. I've come up with an approach to horror which is unlike anything currently appearing in any of the Vertigo titles. It'll be great.

CW: What comics are you both reading at the moment?

Grant: I've read every issue of Spawn. That's about it.

Mark: I just read the 1963 stuff. It's good to see Alan Moore doing superhero comics again, but it's too bad he's had to re-hash Grant's old ideas - 1963 was better when it was called Doom Patrol #53.

Grant: Well said, mate. Funny how nobody else has pointed that one out.
One thing about Alan, though - if you were at a comic convention and some thugs with mohawks tried to mug you, I'll bet big Alan would weigh in there with fists flying. There aren't many other comics creators who'd be much use in a fight.

Mark: What about Neil Gaiman?

Grant: No chance. He'd run like f***.
Jamie Delano might be good in a fight. I don't know: he's got the height but he's a bit of a pacifist.

Mark: Pat Mills would probably use reason and diplomacy.

Grant: The handshake and the smile; weapons of peace.

Mark: Most comics creators are cowards, though. I wouldn't trust any of them to help me if I was in trouble.



HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!  

CW: We've talked a lot about action and commercial work, but do either of you have plans for any more graphic novels or real-life stories? Comics which push storytelling beyond the boundaries of car chases, explosions and superheroes?

Mark: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! 

Grant: I've done a couple of things which will be coming out soon, but I now feel that comics without superheroes are dull. So are most comics with superheroes, mind you, but the worst thing about the other stuff is its self-satisfied smugness in the face of tiny readership and massive disinterest. I'm interested in pop comics, which is why I write the 2000AD stuff. Anything else is just elitist wank. 

Mark: We were just talking about the whote Comics Journal mentality the other day.

Grant: I can't read Comics Journal. It's like being stuck in a chess meeting with Swotty Simpkins and all his poofy pals, I used to pretend I could be bothered reading it because I thought it was somehow serious and relevant, but ultimately it says nothing to me about my life. I can't deny I flip through it now and then when I venture into a comic shop, but it just seems shrill and hysterical, the whole adult comics debate is a dead duck. I consider myself of above-average intelligence, almost Braniac 5-like, in fact, and I'm very well read but I just can't seem to raise any interest in the likes of Robert Crumb, or Art Spiegelman or Will Eisner or any number of other giants of the medium.
Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean these people are without merit, but what I dislike is the way in which, as someone invoked in the comics field, I'm somehow required to go down on one knee and bow my head before the greatness of these people. The fact is, their work means nothing to me. It connects me on absolutely no level. And I'd rather read a John Broome Flash than any of those shitty hippy underground comics from the '60s. As far as I'm concerned, Crumb's just some cranky old guy with funny teeth who hates pop music in the way that cranky old guys with funny teeth can. Even the new stuff bores the pants off me. I used to pick up Eightball and Yummy Fur and things like that, but I soon realised that I was just seeing the same gestures repeated over and over again. You know, here's Chester Brown having yet another wank, here comes Dan Clowes with another list of all the things he hates. Number one on my list of the things I hate is reading about all the things that Dan Clowes hates.
It's as predictable as any trashy superhero comic. The only difference is that with the superhero comic is that you don't have to listen to neurotic fatboy college nerd assholes with girl trouble, telling you how f***ing important it all is. Maybe these guys just need a break from obsessively doing the same things over and over again all the time. Stick 'em on Legion of Superheroes or Hulk 2099, or anything, just to kick them out of the complacent rut they're all in and force them to re-evaluate what they're doing. If I had Hitler's powers I'd force everyone to spend time doing everyone else's comics. Let's see Rob Liefeld ruin Love and Rockets for six months while the Hernandez Brothers write and draw West Coast Avengers. Maybe then things would open out a little and people would stop doing the same shit over and over again for the same old audiences. Generally, I'd rather read a proper book or watch a good film than pick up a comic, and so would most normal people.          

Mark: Wise words mate.

Grant: The majority of the comics we're currently supposed to acknowledge as the cutting edge of the medium are created by bitter, self-obsessed American wankers. F*** off back to therapy! That's what I say, I'm sick of comics produced by geeks and losers. As for graphic novels, I keep reading articles asking what the graphic novel is meant to be. Well, I'll tell you - the graphic novel is something nobody buys. That's the only worthwhile definition. Any other debate on the subject is conducted by people who desperately need to take a holiday. And speaking of holidays, I'm off on another globetrotting adventure and I'd advise any sane Comic World fans to save up the money they'd normally waste on crappy comics and do the same. One Round-the-World plane ticket costs 599 quid. If I have any fans left, I urge them to live the Beat dream. I've been strip-searched by the French Police, spent three days on a painted bus travelling down the Himalayas to Delhi in the company of mad Tibetans, wandered drunk in the night through Singapore's Chinatown during Mooncake Festival, got high on magic mushrooms in the Buddhist ruins of Indonesia, watched the sunrise from Ayers rock, danced with naked girls on a moonlit beach in Fiji. You only live once and the world is so groovy. Throw those comics onto the fire and get out there!

Mark: Too right. And by the time anyone reads this interview, I'll be married and journeying across the USA in a Cadillac with the radio on full blast. We'll be having a ball readers! And remember this; all you swotty little tits with access to desktop publishing facilities can criticize us all you like, but you know you just can't stop buying our comics. Thanks for the cash!